Simple?

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Post #27,782

by Arkadiy

2/8/02 9:37:57 AM

Simple?

You call fundamental difference in how people think "simple"? I disagree.

My beef is not with tables. OO can meake good use of SQL, lookup tables, even tables containing code, although that's stretching it. My problem is that you don't see the relationship between action and actor. Apparently, for you, actions just happen, without any acting entity, or at least without a single main acting entity. That goes contrary to the way my brain works.

Post #27,827

by tablizer

2/8/02 1:00:37 PM

Compared to others, yes.

>> You call fundamental difference in how people think "simple"? I disagree. <<

It is a much "cleaner" explanation than most others floated, especially those floated at the end of heated debates :-)

>> My problem is that you don't see the relationship between action and actor. Apparently, for you, actions just happen, without any acting entity, or at least without a single main acting entity. <<

I see the relationship as open-ended and dynamic and multiple. I see the relationship to actors like *local* variables: created, used, then tossed away. IOW, the relationships are "encapsulated" within a given operation more or less. If you make it global, then you have more dependencies to change if the relationships change IMO.

________________
oop.ismad.com

How non-OO people think. - (Arkadiy) - (90) - Jan. 29, 2002, 10:04:49 AM EST

I just don't get OO design decisions - (tablizer) - (88) - Jan. 29, 2002, 10:47:05 AM EST

I believe I understand why you have a problem - (ben_tilly) - (21) - Jan. 29, 2002, 12:53:33 PM EST

Re: I believe I understand why you have a problem - (wharris2) - (1) - Jan. 29, 2002, 02:35:10 PM EST

Well, my philosophy says... - (ben_tilly) - Jan. 29, 2002, 04:04:15 PM EST

ADT's and Coddlets - (tablizer) - (18) - Jan. 29, 2002, 05:27:14 PM EST

Coddlets? - (Arkadiy) - (10) - Jan. 30, 2002, 10:23:26 AM EST

From the context: Applets + Codd = "Coddlets". - (CRConrad) - (9) - Jan. 30, 2002, 12:12:02 PM EST

And "little snippets of data structures" make no sence to me -NT - (Arkadiy) - (8) - Jan. 30, 2002, 02:19:53 PM EST

Me neither - but don't blame me; it's *his* concept! :-) -NT - (CRConrad) - Jan. 30, 2002, 05:12:56 PM EST

Virtual Structures - (tablizer) - (6) - Feb. 1, 2002, 02:23:51 PM EST

I understand all words - (Arkadiy) - (5) - Feb. 1, 2002, 02:27:03 PM EST

how about this then - (tablizer) - (4) - Feb. 1, 2002, 02:59:35 PM EST

Odd. Not a single mention of "coddlet" anywhere. - (Arkadiy) - (3) - Feb. 1, 2002, 03:39:25 PM EST

"A formula for a pattern or structure" -NT - (tablizer) - (2) - Feb. 1, 2002, 10:19:20 PM EST

Still odd. - (Arkadiy) - (1) - Feb. 2, 2002, 09:36:22 PM EST

Jay, where is your "Roles" link? -NT - (tablizer) - Feb. 2, 2002, 11:03:01 PM EST

I think you would prefer what Code Complete has to say - (ben_tilly) - (6) - Jan. 30, 2002, 11:00:53 AM EST

You must think in *Russian*! Think in *RUSSIAN*! - (admin) - (2) - Jan. 30, 2002, 11:11:07 AM EST

Firefox, Clint Eastwood and the semi-telepathic MiG. - (CRConrad) - Jan. 30, 2002, 12:17:43 PM EST

Second, was FireFox. (book was better than movie) -NT - (Steve Lowe) - Jan. 30, 2002, 12:16:44 PM EST

Abstraction level is relative and graph-like IMO - (tablizer) - (2) - Jan. 30, 2002, 02:25:20 PM EST

Nested abstractions do work in business - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Jan. 31, 2002, 10:18:01 AM EST

"Layers" is not appropriate for the most part - (tablizer) - Jan. 31, 2002, 01:41:57 PM EST

That's not the kind of post I 'd like to get... - (Arkadiy) - (65) - Jan. 30, 2002, 11:01:55 AM EST

Why the Tree focus? - (tablizer) - (64) - Jan. 31, 2002, 01:46:14 PM EST

No tree focus. - (Arkadiy) - (63) - Jan. 31, 2002, 01:59:03 PM EST

Have you thot of tables? - (tablizer) - (62) - Jan. 31, 2002, 04:36:56 PM EST

Not relevant. - (Arkadiy) - (61) - Jan. 31, 2002, 05:03:35 PM EST

what is wrong with them? - (tablizer) - (60) - Jan. 31, 2002, 09:16:05 PM EST

Bryce, please pay attention. - (static) - (3) - Jan. 31, 2002, 09:22:37 PM EST

seperation of concerns - (tablizer) - (2) - Feb. 1, 2002, 11:56:28 PM EST

Duh! - (Arkadiy) - (1) - Feb. 2, 2002, 09:39:10 PM EST

Perhaps p/r is moving above that -NT - (tablizer) - Feb. 2, 2002, 11:00:19 PM EST

Bryce, Static is right. - (Arkadiy) - (55) - Feb. 1, 2002, 09:48:27 AM EST

what is the goal? - (tablizer) - (54) - Feb. 1, 2002, 02:01:44 PM EST

The goal is to further the discussion. - (Arkadiy) - (53) - Feb. 1, 2002, 02:17:31 PM EST

that depends - (tablizer) - (52) - Feb. 1, 2002, 02:54:50 PM EST

OK, getting somewhere. - (Arkadiy) - (51) - Feb. 1, 2002, 03:35:06 PM EST

Now THAT is the crux.... - (folkert) - (1) - Feb. 1, 2002, 03:59:28 PM EST

only one fact here - (tablizer) - Feb. 1, 2002, 10:13:47 PM EST

I disagree - (tablizer) - (48) - Feb. 1, 2002, 10:04:19 PM EST

May be. - (Arkadiy) - (47) - Feb. 2, 2002, 09:24:21 PM EST

the calculation complexity may not even matter here - (tablizer) - (46) - Feb. 2, 2002, 11:14:00 PM EST

It does not matter indeed. - (Arkadiy) - (45) - Feb. 2, 2002, 11:52:14 PM EST

Regional Scope to the Rescue - (tablizer) - (44) - Feb. 3, 2002, 01:05:55 PM EST

Regional Scope - ok. - (Arkadiy) - (43) - Feb. 4, 2002, 10:40:53 AM EST

I think so - (tablizer) - (42) - Feb. 4, 2002, 01:31:55 PM EST

It was really C, not C++ - (Arkadiy) - (41) - Feb. 4, 2002, 04:38:07 PM EST

Welcome to Table Land - (tablizer) - (40) - Feb. 4, 2002, 06:37:26 PM EST

So, each clone's data is a row? - (Arkadiy) - (39) - Feb. 4, 2002, 07:49:55 PM EST

Multiple Entity Association Candidates - (tablizer) - (38) - Feb. 4, 2002, 09:13:21 PM EST

Re: Multiple Entity Association Candidates - (Arkadiy) - (37) - Feb. 5, 2002, 10:15:25 AM EST

Genericness - (tablizer) - (36) - Feb. 5, 2002, 11:55:43 AM EST

Expressing problem domain - (Arkadiy) - (35) - Feb. 5, 2002, 02:13:09 PM EST

Misunderstanding - (tablizer) - (28) - Feb. 5, 2002, 08:03:45 PM EST

Actual numbers don't matter much. - (Arkadiy) - (18) - Feb. 6, 2002, 10:47:48 AM EST

Spoken Language? - (tablizer) - (17) - Feb. 6, 2002, 06:43:02 PM EST

Re: Spoken Language? - (Arkadiy) - (16) - Feb. 6, 2002, 10:46:35 PM EST

Hmmmm. Verbal thinkers versus visual thinkers - (tablizer) - (10) - Feb. 7, 2002, 12:51:58 AM EST

Seems like end of conversation, then. - (Arkadiy) - (6) - Feb. 7, 2002, 10:34:38 AM EST

See also Stephenson, In The Beginning Was The Command Line.. -NT - (CRConrad) - (1) - Feb. 7, 2002, 12:47:29 PM EST

Actually, I like command lines - (tablizer) - Feb. 8, 2002, 11:10:58 PM EST

Noted. - (static) - Feb. 7, 2002, 08:07:43 PM EST

Can our differences really be all that simple? - (tablizer) - (2) - Feb. 7, 2002, 09:46:35 PM EST

Simple? - (Arkadiy) - (1) - Feb. 8, 2002, 09:37:57 AM EST

Compared to others, yes. - (tablizer) - Feb. 8, 2002, 01:00:37 PM EST

On visual thinking. - (Another Scott) - (2) - Feb. 8, 2002, 09:38:14 AM EST

mooooo - (tablizer) - (1) - Feb. 8, 2002, 08:06:47 PM EST

I've heard her speak.. - (Ashton) - Feb. 17, 2002, 10:44:11 PM EST

Sp: "Swahili". Kwaheri, Jambo! - (CRConrad) - (3) - Feb. 7, 2002, 05:58:53 AM EST

I've had enuf of your irrelevent, speghetti insolts :-) -NT - (tablizer) - (2) - Feb. 7, 2002, 09:43:56 PM EST

Hey Bryce, I was just over on /. and revisited an old... - (CRConrad) - (1) - Feb. 8, 2002, 08:55:34 AM EST

Okay, you are off the hook - (tablizer) - Feb. 8, 2002, 08:11:29 PM EST

Re: Spoken Language? - (pwhysall) - Feb. 7, 2002, 07:54:21 AM EST

Nothing else is possible with you. - (CRConrad) - (8) - Feb. 6, 2002, 11:05:49 AM EST

Did you notice... - (Arkadiy) - (6) - Feb. 6, 2002, 12:20:44 PM EST

What're you talking about?!? I called a mind (yours) "good"! -NT - (CRConrad) - (5) - Feb. 6, 2002, 12:53:07 PM EST

Thank you. - (Arkadiy) - (4) - Feb. 6, 2002, 01:43:04 PM EST

More like the other way around... - (CRConrad) - (3) - Feb. 6, 2002, 02:14:26 PM EST

Right you are. - (Arkadiy) - (1) - Feb. 6, 2002, 03:16:12 PM EST

Actually, you are right too... - (CRConrad) - Feb. 6, 2002, 06:30:26 PM EST

not think like me == bad mind ? - (tablizer) - Feb. 6, 2002, 06:54:59 PM EST

Walk Before Run - (tablizer) - Feb. 6, 2002, 06:48:43 PM EST

A classic real world example: Brooklyn Union Gas - (a6l6e6x) - (5) - Feb. 7, 2002, 02:43:16 PM EST

One case proves nothing - (tablizer) - (4) - Feb. 7, 2002, 09:35:34 PM EST

Re: One case proves nothing - (a6l6e6x) - (3) - Feb. 8, 2002, 12:57:32 PM EST

ad-hoc - (tablizer) - (2) - Feb. 8, 2002, 08:21:27 PM EST

Re: ad-hoc - (a6l6e6x) - (1) - Feb. 8, 2002, 09:29:58 PM EST

English Oriented Programming - (tablizer) - Feb. 8, 2002, 11:05:54 PM EST

How I think in Non-OO terms - (nking) - Jan. 29, 2002, 03:18:39 PM EST

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