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New Now THAT is the crux....
I think your beef with OO is mostly syntax. I can tell you that the second variant of the code is not only good procedural decomposition, but it has beginnings of good OO decomposition. If you prefer to write invoice_getTotal(rs) instead of rs.getTotal(), that is fine with me. As long as you see that there is a bunch of functions related to invoice, and invoice is presented as a piece of data passed to those functions, you'll write good code, whether you call it OO or not.If you do not notice that there is such thing as "total" that can be computed over any "rs", you're not a good procedural programmer either.


From the gist of this whole message, you are beginning to see the reasoning we all end up quitting arguing with Bryce. As he just ignores relevant facts. Don't worry your "progress" will be all for naught, in the next few replies.

And Bryce, I am beginning to think you will never be able to debate these "issues" you have with OO to a reasonable level of disagreement with most of us here. You just cannot see things the way we see them. Although we most definately are seeing your way of viewing things.

greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
In 2002, everyone will discover that everyone else is using linux. ** Linux: Good, fast AND cheap. ** Failure is not an option: It comes bundled with Windows. ** "Two rules to success in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know." - Sassan Tat
New only one fact here
>> As he just ignores relevant facts. <<

What "facts" prey tell? I only see opinions and claims and cliches. I don't see it saving keystrokes or making things objectively easier to find or making less code spots that need changing, etc.

If OOP helps you PERSONALLY grok code or designs better, that is fine with me. Just DON'T extrapolate what makes your neurons comfortable onto mine UNTIL you have some externally objective demonstration.

>> You just cannot see things the way we see them <<

That is probably the *only* fact here.

>> Although we most definately are seeing your way of viewing things. <<

I question that. If it was true, then you would be able to come up with better justifications beyond cliches and authoritarianism appeals.
________________
oop.ismad.com
     How non-OO people think. - (Arkadiy) - (90)
         I just don't get OO design decisions - (tablizer) - (88)
             I believe I understand why you have a problem - (ben_tilly) - (21)
                 Re: I believe I understand why you have a problem - (wharris2) - (1)
                     Well, my philosophy says... - (ben_tilly)
                 ADT's and Coddlets - (tablizer) - (18)
                     Coddlets? - (Arkadiy) - (10)
                         From the context: Applets + Codd = "Coddlets". - (CRConrad) - (9)
                             And "little snippets of data structures" make no sence to me -NT - (Arkadiy) - (8)
                                 Me neither - but don't blame me; it's *his* concept! :-) -NT - (CRConrad)
                                 Virtual Structures - (tablizer) - (6)
                                     I understand all words - (Arkadiy) - (5)
                                         how about this then - (tablizer) - (4)
                                             Odd. Not a single mention of "coddlet" anywhere. - (Arkadiy) - (3)
                                                 "A formula for a pattern or structure" -NT - (tablizer) - (2)
                                                     Still odd. - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                         Jay, where is your "Roles" link? -NT - (tablizer)
                     I think you would prefer what Code Complete has to say - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                         You must think in *Russian*! Think in *RUSSIAN*! - (admin) - (2)
                             Firefox, Clint Eastwood and the semi-telepathic MiG. - (CRConrad)
                             Second, was FireFox. (book was better than movie) -NT - (Steve Lowe)
                         Abstraction level is relative and graph-like IMO - (tablizer) - (2)
                             Nested abstractions do work in business - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                 "Layers" is not appropriate for the most part - (tablizer)
             That's not the kind of post I 'd like to get... - (Arkadiy) - (65)
                 Why the Tree focus? - (tablizer) - (64)
                     No tree focus. - (Arkadiy) - (63)
                         Have you thot of tables? - (tablizer) - (62)
                             Not relevant. - (Arkadiy) - (61)
                                 what is wrong with them? - (tablizer) - (60)
                                     Bryce, please pay attention. - (static) - (3)
                                         seperation of concerns - (tablizer) - (2)
                                             Duh! - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                 Perhaps p/r is moving above that -NT - (tablizer)
                                     Bryce, Static is right. - (Arkadiy) - (55)
                                         what is the goal? - (tablizer) - (54)
                                             The goal is to further the discussion. - (Arkadiy) - (53)
                                                 that depends - (tablizer) - (52)
                                                     OK, getting somewhere. - (Arkadiy) - (51)
                                                         Now THAT is the crux.... - (folkert) - (1)
                                                             only one fact here - (tablizer)
                                                         I disagree - (tablizer) - (48)
                                                             May be. - (Arkadiy) - (47)
                                                                 the calculation complexity may not even matter here - (tablizer) - (46)
                                                                     It does not matter indeed. - (Arkadiy) - (45)
                                                                         Regional Scope to the Rescue - (tablizer) - (44)
                                                                             Regional Scope - ok. - (Arkadiy) - (43)
                                                                                 I think so - (tablizer) - (42)
                                                                                     It was really C, not C++ - (Arkadiy) - (41)
                                                                                         Welcome to Table Land - (tablizer) - (40)
                                                                                             So, each clone's data is a row? - (Arkadiy) - (39)
                                                                                                 Multiple Entity Association Candidates - (tablizer) - (38)
                                                                                                     Re: Multiple Entity Association Candidates - (Arkadiy) - (37)
                                                                                                         Genericness - (tablizer) - (36)
                                                                                                             Expressing problem domain - (Arkadiy) - (35)
                                                                                                                 Misunderstanding - (tablizer) - (28)
                                                                                                                     Actual numbers don't matter much. - (Arkadiy) - (18)
                                                                                                                         Spoken Language? - (tablizer) - (17)
                                                                                                                             Re: Spoken Language? - (Arkadiy) - (16)
                                                                                                                                 Hmmmm. Verbal thinkers versus visual thinkers - (tablizer) - (10)
                                                                                                                                     Seems like end of conversation, then. - (Arkadiy) - (6)
                                                                                                                                         See also Stephenson, In The Beginning Was The Command Line.. -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             Actually, I like command lines - (tablizer)
                                                                                                                                         Noted. - (static)
                                                                                                                                         Can our differences really be all that simple? - (tablizer) - (2)
                                                                                                                                             Simple? - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                 Compared to others, yes. - (tablizer)
                                                                                                                                     On visual thinking. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         mooooo - (tablizer) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             I've heard her speak.. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                 Sp: "Swahili". Kwaheri, Jambo! - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                                                                                                     I've had enuf of your irrelevent, speghetti insolts :-) -NT - (tablizer) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         Hey Bryce, I was just over on /. and revisited an old... - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             Okay, you are off the hook - (tablizer)
                                                                                                                                 Re: Spoken Language? - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                     Nothing else is possible with you. - (CRConrad) - (8)
                                                                                                                         Did you notice... - (Arkadiy) - (6)
                                                                                                                             What're you talking about?!? I called a mind (yours) "good"! -NT - (CRConrad) - (5)
                                                                                                                                 Thank you. - (Arkadiy) - (4)
                                                                                                                                     More like the other way around... - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                                                                                                         Right you are. - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             Actually, you are right too... - (CRConrad)
                                                                                                                                         not think like me == bad mind ? - (tablizer)
                                                                                                                         Walk Before Run - (tablizer)
                                                                                                                 A classic real world example: Brooklyn Union Gas - (a6l6e6x) - (5)
                                                                                                                     One case proves nothing - (tablizer) - (4)
                                                                                                                         Re: One case proves nothing - (a6l6e6x) - (3)
                                                                                                                             ad-hoc - (tablizer) - (2)
                                                                                                                                 Re: ad-hoc - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                                                                                     English Oriented Programming - (tablizer)
         How I think in Non-OO terms - (nking)

The annual lizardfall in the Monterey preserve of California approaches 4,800 lizards per acre per year.
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