Post #268,798
9/27/06 2:57:23 PM
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Off the cuff aside, this should scare the hell out of you
down the slope we go...faster and faster.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #268,799
9/27/06 3:16:24 PM
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No kidding.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #268,800
9/27/06 3:43:38 PM
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Yeah.. even more than the Iran invasion, I wot.
Hey Mr. Govmint==Baad-by-definition Alarmist -
it's merely a Custer's last-ditch stand; an effete stab at keeping the future med bills below $5T/year and climbing - not to mention the associated need for reinforcing 24.66 billion chairs, floors, car seats, airplane superstructures etc.
If it takes 'Public Health' to try to set an alert for the demonstrably clueless:
Don't Eat Shit! Duh: it's Bad for living things
Should we have another campaign (reflecting other equally depressing surveys) ?
The Earth goes around the Sun - >NOT< vice versa.
Transfat cookies being chewed; other detritus being discussed, autopsied on NPR, just now. Rep of NY health dept. + real live callers-in..
(Gawd, wait til oleaginous oleo gets its own side-effects spotlight; not that oleo-eaters are apt to notice that-one, either.)
But I agree on one aspect.. it IS SAD when some %large of 300M sated closeted ecdysiasts ... need a nanny to gently remind them: Don't Eat Shit, Asshole!
Bitchin about Health.gov meddling, while tacitly tolerating (even the proposition of) Govmint overseeing bedrooms, birth-control and the rest of the Puritan agenda.. seems a bit schizophrenic, doncha think?
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Post #268,807
9/27/06 4:50:27 PM
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Once again
you have come out against personal responsibility and for Government control of behaviour - (now) down to what people are allowed to eat.
I'm not surprised, really.
Tell me - with this type of regulation, how many times would eggs have hit the FDA's (or perhaps DEA's?) most wanted list in the past 15 years?
Do you REALLY want the Government to take care of us like livestock?
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #268,809
9/27/06 5:45:04 PM
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Duh ...I get the 'Control' aspect , you fuel
And I resent the Extreme Busybodiness of the huge majority of Muricans whose 'valuez' were inculcated by Puritan forebears -- quite as much as anyone you're apt to bump into.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then, I contradict myself
I contain legions ...
--Walt W.
You Miss my Point; was it too sub-tull?
*This* intrusion falls, at least peripherally, into that huge endlessly-debatable/spinnable concept of Public Health.
It is one of the more-nearly beneficent Institutions we ever invented (and an absolutely Essential One in any nation) but perhaps more-so where the huge majority remain steadfastly clueless about how even their Bodies work, how disease vectors work not to mention history, civics, ___.
(And it is no secret, except to the perenially cluless, that 'our' maintenance of this only-Thing-we-Have against the inexorable microrganisms on the planet - as produce 1918 flu pandemics - is as woefully underfunded: Under Valued as ... make your own list.)
And yes: in the larger Duh-Obvious cases: they DO have to behave like little-Jesus - to keep the lemmings from suicide. It just gets a bit fuzzy if - trying to keep the lemmings from slower-forms of that. As we see, here.
yeah..yeah.. where >WERE< they when the invading Euro Gengises were handing out smallpox infected blankets to the existing landholders? Unfunded? impotent? - or just aware they'd be shot if they mentioned how despicably their fellow invaders were behaving. You be the judge.
I suspect there will be much More hue, cry, banal cliche about *This* nanny-gate sort of trespass into Our Right to Do Stupid Stuff and Feel Good About Ourselves than about the inexorable deconstruction of the very basis of our alleged-Countryhood itself.
Wanna Bet ???
Personally, I doubt that 'Public Health' will accomplish much more than to feed the Shrub mentality of Stubborn-dumbth-as-Virtue, now rampant:
What !?! *They* say that I
A) Shouldn't eat shit? - I'll show Them and eat More.
B) Have turned Iraq/Afghanistan into the worlds first Express Recruitment of Teen-suicides-for God? - I'll show Them! We'll Just Stay There Forever.
C) cha. cha. cha.
ie. no need to get knickers in a twist.
Livestock ???
When I turn on certain meeja, I hear a Lot of
moo... moo... moo...
And when I drive down I-5, passing Harris Ranch: I see those cows packed as densely as say...cubicles?!
Does that sugges
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Post #268,811
9/27/06 6:57:30 PM
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No it does not fall into "public health"
it falls squarely into >personal< health.
And as such, the thought of shrub, slick willy, or any other elected official to tell me what I am allowed to do seems a bit...en passant...like we should have figured this crap out some four score ago when the grand experiment that was prohibition failed miserably.
And in the grand scheme of "i told you so"...
well..
I told you so.
What's next?
fat tax?, maybe genetic manipulation..after all, we know that sequence predisposes you to cancer...so maam, you are not allowed to have babies...its in the interest of "public health".
And Imric, not to worry, I expect this from our mutual friend. Seems to forget that NYC is not part of that puritanical portion of society that sent forth a shrubbery.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #268,812
9/27/06 7:50:46 PM
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What don't you understand about
*This* intrusion falls, at least peripherally, into that huge endlessly-debatable/spinnable concept of Public Health. If an entire nation is suffering from habits which directly (and massively) affect the "Public's" Health - I don't give a shit about the semantics of ['Public Health\ufffd'] Get enough Persons together and, guess what: yagots a Public. I already said where I think this is going, and why. And with WHAT other atrocities I compared all this predictable sound tsk and fury tsk. Read me in my posts.
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Post #268,823
9/27/06 9:14:01 PM
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I don't think you can quite compare this with Prohibition.
As the trans fats aren't being outlawed at home. That's a pretty big difference. There won't be Federal agents traipsing through the hills looking for partially hydrogenated oil stills.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #268,848
9/27/06 10:48:58 PM
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Yet.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #268,819
9/27/06 8:44:42 PM
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Cha Cha Cha.
Go and dance towards government making all decisions for you.
All that is not prohibited is manditory.
All that is not manditory is prohibited.
That is what this is moving toward - despite that it may be part of a current dietary fad.
Freedom. Is. Not. About. Protecting. Everybody. From. Themselves.
Regardless of the current thinking of the liberal community.
Deal with it. Or relinquish adulthood.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #268,822
9/27/06 9:12:39 PM
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While I agree with the sentiment...
... this isn't just about protecting people from themselves. It's also about making sure people who don't care to protect themselves aren't making health insurance more expensive for everyone else. Which is a different argument you can have. :-)
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #268,842
9/27/06 10:17:20 PM
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excuse me, what happened to user pays
My auto insurance shouldnt go up because you cant drive
The current health care system is fucked, emergency rooms packed with indigent kids with ear infections,welfare queens running to neurosurgions because their hands sweat and they are 300 lbs etc
we need to simplify
County health departments staffed with Interns paying off student loans and elderly hacks doing colds runny noses, ordinary fractures, lice and standard bacterial infections paid out of tax funds. Any indigents showing up at emergency rooms get a quick triage and directions to a county clinic.
Joe public will learn to use these because a minimum payment of $5 to be seen is better than the $20 to see your hmo chosen quack.
continuum of health records, means that trends, infections etc are centrally tracked making epidemics easier to spot and a problematic ongoing health issue for an individual easier to spot.
Next step Doctors in private practice will be able to see their patients with adequate time to discuss thoroughly their needs because they only see the non easy stuff, they will charge more but see less patients, better chances to ensure they catch what is going wrong, specialists at the current rate. Private insurance will be cheaper to get for these visits because they dont have to fund the runny nose visits. People without private insurance are still eligable for medicare/medicaid because they will need a referal from the county clinic to see the doc. Since the feds pay that tab separately there is no incentive to not refer.
Health care costs will drop and stabilize. Hospitals can remain open. People can be treated with respect and properly.
my dos centavos,
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #268,845
9/27/06 10:28:59 PM
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I agree.
I'm just pointing out how it works now.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #268,836
9/27/06 9:52:28 PM
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How is this any different than banning cyclamates?
If a substance is considered hazardous to the public health, it should not be used. Now if we could just have aspartame and sucralose banned...oh yeah, they make too much money (kinda like tobacco, innit!) There's no money to be made from using stevia. Can't trademark it or say there's a proprietary recipe.
Pity.
Smile,
Amy
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman|Pics of the Family]
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Post #268,854
9/28/06 12:37:17 AM
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ROFL. Were cyclamates bad?
Because rats sometimes got cancer after drinking the equivalent of 20 cases a day?
Because of course obesity carries no health risks...
Hey! I have an idea! Since ALL food can be abused, and obesity itself has health risks we could:
A) ration all food, after making sure that the food that WAS allowed was healthy by the standard du jour
or
B) only allow the health food du jour, and enforce exercise through labor camps!
That will keep those insurance costs down!
*grin*
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
| |
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #268,856
9/28/06 12:45:11 AM
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Great idea. Lets all eat raw spinach
Its really good for you!
Oops.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #268,860
9/28/06 3:05:35 PM
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And don't fergit C
AND
C) Everyone must perform 30 minutes vigorous exercise every day...
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
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Post #268,868
9/28/06 5:41:57 PM
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Simple, that last -
New Rules! yes, yes it's \ufffd
All parking lots for Malls must be a 15 min walk from the Cathedral itself.
(No electric buses, etc. etc. allowed to minimize the use of actual homo-sap muscles (however flaccid, atrophied.))
Too heavy to carry? Pushcarts available. Non-powered - but permissible to rig a sail.
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Post #268,869
9/28/06 5:44:39 PM
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Heh.. wait'll ya see brewing reports on fructose/corn syrup
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Post #268,837
9/27/06 9:52:35 PM
9/27/06 9:57:36 PM
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Foie gras is now banned in Chicago
and it's not because it's bad for you - it's because of how the geese are treated to make it.
PETA wins this round.
lincoln
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States.
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
Edited by lincoln
Sept. 27, 2006, 09:57:36 PM EDT
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Post #268,882
9/28/06 9:14:29 PM
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I'm not with the health nazis, but
...I don't see a lot of discussion here about the trend in the postwar (or should we now be calling them "interwar"?) decades for a lot of interlocking agro-industrial-marketing corporate factors to dump a shitload of Bad Stuff, of which transfats may serve for our present purposes as a plump poster child, into the food supply offered for sale to an increasingly ad-besotted and less-informed public. Sure, you can strike a noble pose against paternalism and the nanny state, but you can be certain that many of the talking points you lovingly copy-and-paste have been developed, focus-grouped and strewn out in our electronic smog of misinformation for you by Archer-Daniel-Midlands and sundry co-enablers. Believe me, if ADM (taking them up as an arbitrary example) suddenly discovered that its vast corn holdings were contaminated with mercury, you'd see an aggressive PR/political campaign to put the message across that any claims about supposed adverse health effects of mercury were unproven, of suspect provenance, and likely advanced by liberal so-called scientists with a hidden agenda to force Americans away from the blessings of high-fructose corn syrup and back onto dependence on foreign sugar—maybe even Cuban sugar.
Would you have the government stand out of the way in that event, and let the market sort it out? After all, if mercury is actually bad for a body the consumer will figger it out eventually. Worked [link|http://whyfiles.org/201mercury/images/minamata_child.jpg|in Japan] back in the day, didn't it?
It ain't a level playing field. Government is an imperfect instrument, to put it mildly, but corporate managers whose bonuses depend on the next quarter's numbers will poison you without a second thought.
cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #268,893
9/28/06 10:30:06 PM
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The "Health Nazis" are in Archer Daniel Midland's pocket.
They have drunk the cool-aid. They forced the fast food industry off relatively safe (note, I say "relatively safe", not "safe"), durable and economical beef tallow at the behest of ADM and their patsies in the American Heart Association who were still promoting trans fats a few months ago (still recommending margarine instead of (gasp!) butter). Surely fat research grants from ADM / Cargill had nothing at all to do with this, right?
The fast food industry didn't go to trans fats because they wanted to, but because they were forced to. The Health Nazis forced them off beef tallow. Normal vegetable oils are entirely unsuitable for deep frying, becoming rancid, CARCENOGENIC and unusable in just an hour or three (or minutes by some reconing).
So what is the fast food industry being force to now? Expensive GENETICALLY MODIFIED VEGETABLE OILS such as "canola" (formerly highly toxic rapeseed oil, but now in it's second round of genetic modification).
The other option is to go from partially hydrogenated vegetable oils (trans fats) to fully hydrogenated vegetable oils - and guess what those are - they're FULLY SATURATED FATS - exactly what ADM'S Health Nazi patsies have declared is worse than the Devil himself - but since they're made from ADM perveyed products they are Jesus Christ in a Bottle (well, actually, in a tub, because fully saturated oils are stiff as a hocky puck at room temperature).
Remember, back in the 19th century when America practically lived on pig fat heart disease and cancer were very minor problem. They became prominent with the rise of "healthy" polyunsaturated oils and trans fats promoted by the grain and cotton industries.
I see absolutely no better roll for government than taking trans fats off the market. The consumer watches television advertising and has no concept whatever of the health impact. The consumer is in no way prepared to make proper decisions on this subject.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #268,896
9/28/06 10:37:24 PM
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OT the local"Dads" rootbeer has changed to corn syrop
what do you guys drink now?
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #268,898
9/28/06 11:26:38 PM
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My personal take on this is related to the fact that years
ago lead was a major ingredient in makeup. Should lead be permitted in makeup again and people should be allowed to make up their own minds about whether to use lead based foundations or not?
Basically, all NY is saying (AFAICT) is stop using this stuff because it's a heart attack in a bag (in the case of fries) and instead use this stuff, which is also a heart attack in a bag, but it's about a fifteenth of a heart attack compared to the trans fats.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #268,901
9/29/06 12:02:20 AM
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My point.
These things are manipulated horribly.
Growing up with the horrible DDT fraud perpetrated on the US people - that my Dad was involved in - makes me EXTREMELY cynical about crap like this.
I love my country, mind you.
I FEAR my government.
The two are not the same.
When the government does something 'for our own good' that the people do not demand, I immediately smell Rattus Rattus. I may be wrong sometimes - but see my 'Tips for Living'.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
| |
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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