wierd sctuff happens when a six dimensioned brain tries to

Post #268,278 by boxley 9/21/06 6:08:24 PM Reply	wierd sctuff happens when a six dimensioned brain tries to process 2 dimensional input from a six dimensioned world thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,326 by bionerd 9/22/06 10:33:14 AM Reply	This 6th sense is called proprioception It's knowing where your body is in space. It happens in the parietal lobe, also the place where psychosis originates. Interesting stuff. My son, who has sensory integration dysfunction, has a hard time assimilating external sensorium. His brain doesnt filter stimuli like the average person. He has terrible proprioception. He cant tell where his body ends and he is constantly running into things and falling. His motor skills are terrible. And he is hypersensitive to sound and touch, to the extent that he cant concentrate if the furnace kicks on. His reality is different than the average person's and it affects his behaviors and daily functioning. Now. Look at a psychotic person, who has a reality that is different than the rest of us. They have hallucinations and delusions that they perceive to be real, because their brain is telling them they are real. This affects their behavior and daily functioning. My theory is that we're looking at the same condition on the same continuum. The term "mental illness" is a misnomer. It should be called "brain illness".
Post #268,342 by boxley 9/22/06 12:23:14 PM Reply	there is mental illness apart from brain illness something like what your son has is a brain illness. Someone suffering from PST is a mental illness. A sociopath will not usually have any deviant underlying medical causes, the conditioning of nurture/nature didnt take root in a normative fashion. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,343 by bionerd 9/22/06 12:33:07 PM Reply	I dont think so. At the root of it, I think it's organic. I think it's there, waiting to be activated by a psychosocial event. Take depression. We already know that depression is caused by low levels of serotonin. Take an SSRI, get the serotonin levels up, and there is a decrease in depressive symptoms. Usually the depression is triggered by a precipitant. The event activates and exacerbates the illness that is already there. Take 2 people who get fired from their jobs: Person A, who does not have depression, has some situational stress but bounces back quickly. Person B, who has depression (but no active symptoms up until this point) becomes despondant and suicidal. Same situation. Different responses based on biological predisposition.
Post #268,344 by boxley 9/22/06 12:46:36 PM Reply	there is a method to diagnose low serotonin levels Have you looked at Fenichel? [link\|http://www.amazon.com/PSYCHOANALYTIC-THEORY-NEUROSIS-Z/dp/0393010198\|http://www.amazon.co...S-Z/dp/0393010198] he corrects Freud when wrong---as in his critique of the Death Instinct---yet he presents, extends, and applies Freud's science in a comprehensiveness and accuracy which no other psychoanalyst has since done. Fenichel not only summarizes and clearly explains theory, but also provides case-histories. He also decribes the most basic concepts of psychoanalysis such that any intelligent layman/woman could use this book as a starting point, though the book does reach a very sophiscated level after the introduction and early chapters. Very significant is Fenichel's presentation of how mere neuroses can advance to psychoses, and that solely mentalistic causes can force such an advance; this etiology ruptures the current fashion of emphasizing brain-biochemical causes, or, holding biochemicals to be the ONLY cause of mental illness; Fenichel's work here shows why the biochemical/physicalist-theory is at best half-true (despite the best marketing tactics of American pharmaceutical companies, and the outright bombast of the psychiatric community). thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,791 by bionerd 9/27/06 2:09:11 PM Reply	Interesting I'll have to take a look at that book. I used to be much more psychoanalytical in my approach than I am now, probably because I was mentored by a bunch of Freudians. But as I learn more about the organic components and brain chemistry of mental illness and substance abuse, it seems to make more sense to me. You cant separate mind and body. It's all the same package.
Post #268,583 by static 9/25/06 2:18:09 AM Reply	What about addictions? There is a lot of documentation about the addictive cycle and the behavioural patterns as they go around the cycle. I know that substance addiction can sometimes be treated with other drugs, but I know that a lot of addiction can be successfully treated without medication, too. Mental illness? Brain illness :-)? What's your take? Wade. "Insert crowbar. Apply force."
Post #268,790 by bionerd 9/27/06 1:58:57 PM Reply	Not too many drugs have been approved to treat addictions But it's a hot area of research. So far they use Antabuse and Nalorex for alcohol dependence, Methadone, Buprenex and Suboxone for opioid dependence, and Wellbutrin/Zyban is used in pill form or in nicotine patches for smoking cessation. Do I think addiction is a "brain illness"? Yes. That's not to say there isn't a myriad of behavioral and cognitive components to this illness, but the origin is biological. Addicts have a malfunction in the dopamine reward system in their brains. Drugs and alcohol act on this part of the brain and the pleasure feeds the addiction. Genetic predisposition makes some individuals more vulnerable than others to developing an addiction. The best treatment for an addict is to combine medication (if it is available)and therapy (usually motivational enhancement and/or cognitive-behavioral therapy. The trick is to give them all the tools available, keep them motivated, and help them change their thought patterns and behaviors.
Post #268,804 by Ashton 9/27/06 4:28:26 PM Reply	Psycho-LRPD chimes in, Banality meets pathology in a tragic duet. Apropos of your take on psychochemistrionics - A state of peace is achieved by some few, after decades of meditation, introspection of the sources of all those noisy little 'i's typically running around loose in the jelloware. A line of (untoxified/cut) heroin can produce a similar state. But you can't stay" there on ez-chemical short-cuts. I'm glad I tried a line of h. on a couple occasions -- and I can see its massive Appeal. And why it does not* belong anywhere near the -?- "I want all the Good stuff and I want it NOW - on credit / or free" mass-consumption no-effort no-brains personality. (I also had the thought, then.. that -- for that extreme rarity in a culture (and especially: This one), "the Healthy Functioning Human Being" -- h. would have a salubrious effect upon overall mentation, performance, even 'happiness' -- if indulged say, 3x 4x? a year.) Of course - such usage would reduce US demand to ~ a couple kilos a year? I suspect that would be sufficient for the Qualifiers (?) -- and how would you find those? They mostly keep quiet; hope not to be Noticed by evangelists and other manic busybodies we nurture here. ;^>
Post #268,816 by boxley 9/27/06 8:19:19 PM Reply	quite often an addiction can be genetic some people drink to self medicate bi-polar tipping. Others such as native americans have a very physical addiction due to the fact that they have not been exposed to sugar as long as whites have. They use sugar, the pancreas is not developed to handle that rush so wild swings happen. Alchohol has an immediate affect on the pancreas and other glands that produce chemicals. Thats why you see a lot of diabetes on the Res as well as Natives who either drink constantly or not at all. Methadone just whacks the dopamine receptors, is harder to kick than heroin and doesnt buzz worth a damn. Antabuse gives you a permanent non stop hangover and eats your guts. Treatment consists of removal, withdrawal and therapy. Finding an alternate drug to be addicted to is a panacea. Finding an alternative safe addiction that does not involve thrashing the organs is best. Religion, politics, fitness, the internet are good examples, thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,821 by static 9/27/06 9:11:10 PM Reply	Replace one addiction with another? I've never read anywhere that that's a good idea. In fact, whenever it's come up, the response from more experienced people is that it's always a bad idea. However, your comment does somewhat hinge on quite what the definition of an addiction is. There is controversy as to whether Internet addiction exists, and I would think few people would call religion addiction, either. Wade. "Insert crowbar. Apply force."
Post #268,827 by drewk 9/27/06 9:30:02 PM Reply	Dude, "opiate of the masses" sound familiar? === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #268,829 by static 9/27/06 9:32:45 PM Reply	Yeah - but I always took that line as derogatory. "Insert crowbar. Apply force."
Post #268,833 by broomberg 9/27/06 9:49:57 PM Reply	Hey, you get a buzz either way and say things that make sober/sane people look at you as if you were crazy.
Post #268,835 by drewk 9/27/06 9:50:25 PM Reply	It is I got the impression Bill was saying those non-physical addictions are "less bad" than the physical ones. That's not the same as "good". === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #268,889 by static 9/28/06 9:47:45 PM Reply	I guess Bill's stance caught me by surprise. A lot of the literature I've seen available for those in problematic addictions is oriented around overcoming the destructive patterns. Thus, by definition, any addiction is 'bad'. Replacing one with another is acknowledged, but never held up as a valid endpoint solution. Harm Minimization is probably what Bill had in mind, but it's clearly a compromise. As I've already mentioned, it's possible to get lost in the maze of definitions. Addictive behaviour does have an aspect of obsessive compulsiveness. But there is a continuum. I can be obsessive compulsive about my one to two cups of coffee a day - but that's not an addiction worth fighting with a twelve-step program, is it? Now that I think about it, I think there's a lot about human behaviours that is very lightly obsessive compulsive. What carriage on the train you like going home. What order you prepare breakfast in the morning. What TV shows must be watched, week in, week out. Many of these we just call habits. Going to church every Sunday morning. Could these be 'good' addictions? Possibly. Wade. "Insert crowbar. Apply force."
Post #268,892 by boxley 9/28/06 10:29:06 PM Reply	we live in chaos In a six dimention world which we reconcile by seeing two dimentionally upside down. The brain from infancy gets this input and is trained to "weed out" non important visual criteria. We learn to walk by falling down. We learn that certain rituals can assist us in navigating this very strange plane of existance. These rituals can be as simple as lighting up a cigarette before starting an automobile or as complex as shuting ones eyes before ejaculation. Most of our waking life is spent doing things that we have learned over our lives is an acceptable manner. We eat fornicate sleep watch tv read or go online in a way that makes us feel comfortable and safe. This is what "rationalization" has tought us about our environment. Most people dont understand that. We actually live in a strenuous dangerous world that constantly challenges us to survive. We live by rote. We survive because the subconcience has made the proper adjustments to get the corporal body through another day. The concience body relies upon these OBD reactions to allow us to think outide of survival. However the stress related to this constant balancing act causes the subconcience to freak. This is what the basis of mental illness is. The undermind tired of "saving the day" 24X7 freaks and either enters self looping patterns {addictive behavior} or gives up (schizophrenia where all auditory and visual stimulus is no longered filtered by the under mind). Adding to this is chemical imbalances that disrupt the normalization of the undermind and the concience is constantly being presented with either two much info or not enough. This is bi-polar disorder. The actual best frame of mind is where the over and under mind is absolutely in tune, One takes presented info and does only what is best for the organism. This however is man's greatest monster a sociopath. Looks like the gentle neighbor but is totally absorbed toward self preservation and self gratification. Some of our best leaders have been classic sociopaths, some of mankind's greatest enemies have the same affliction. In short we are biologically fucked and psychologically fucked. Religion is trying to enforce rules about the tremendous data inputs around the physical being. They may be valid rulesets, I didnt design the biology so am unfit to declare one right others wrong except by dialectic parsing and beleiving in the realestate deal. hope that helps thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,900 by drewk 9/28/06 11:55:02 PM Reply	I can't decide Is this the most drunk or the most sober you've ever posted? === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #268,937 by boxley 9/29/06 1:51:55 PM Reply	? Perfectly legible post, subject matter is esoteric Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,962 by Ashton 9/29/06 7:45:17 PM Reply	Concur - Some folks, say those afflicted with techie genes, like to call 'it' 'other dimensions'; that way a one can imagine ~ "we'll solve it Real Soon Now.." Most call it 'higher levels of consciousness'. Possibly attainable with certain sorts of efforts -??- but not transmissible to another homo-sap, second-hand (gotta Love Cosmic Humor, if'n ya wanna chat w/ Godheads.) We live by and kill for metaphors every day. -- Jos. Campbell to Bill Moyers, in the last of that series. (And anyone who imagines a metaphor as 'history', or as some bodacious Factoid == is a Fundie. Not to be trusted beyond the babytalk used to inculcate innocent little kiddies of all ages.) We could make that a crucifixion offense, though.
Post #268,971 by drewk 9/29/06 8:23:31 PM Reply	I know, but this is you we're talking about === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #268,973 by boxley 9/29/06 8:34:06 PM Reply	which me are you talking about? :-) Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,844 by boxley 9/27/06 10:25:59 PM Reply	static, you are a religious person (unless changed) have you not observed those who are overly obsessed with same? The idea is that addiction is related to obbsessive cumpulsive behavior so if that behavior can be steered into an activity that society finds more acceptable it isnt nescessarily bad. From a chronic alchoholic wife beater to a pastor of a small church in queensland isnt a bad tradeoff, he wouldnt be a pastor without the guilt and drive of his past. An american example is [link\|http://www.amazon.com/Run-Baby-Nicky-Cruz/dp/0882706306/sr=1-1/qid=1159410287/ref=sr_1_1/104-5200286-6497510?ie=UTF8&s=books\|http://www.amazon.co...0?ie=UTF8&s=books] Is it a miracle, yes, does it work, yes, is it real, yes for him. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,886 by static 9/28/06 9:29:42 PM Reply	I see your point. And whilst I haven't read Nicky Cruz's story, I have read David Wilkerson's. I think you've also made my point. Can religious behaviour be classed as addictive behaviour? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends on the definitions of 'religious behaviour' and 'addictive behaviour'. :-) Wade. "Insert crowbar. Apply force."
Post #268,894 by boxley 9/28/06 10:31:48 PM Reply	I have two brothers who are licenced pastors one you count your fingers after shaking hands the other, either believe his deal or not, on you neither one is addictive so to speak thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #268,913 by bionerd 9/29/06 10:17:40 AM Reply	Yeah but People who drink to self medicate are abusing etoh. They may or may not become addicted, depending on their biological make up. Out of all the drugs I mentioned, methadone is the the only substitution drug. The others dont create a dependency or a high. They treat the cravings and compulsions. Drug therapy is a viable part of treatment for addictions, and you're going to be seeing more and more of it down the road.
Post #268,915 by bionerd 9/29/06 10:19:51 AM 9/29/06 10:21:33 AM Reply	dup-sorry People who drink to self medicate are abusing etoh. They may or may not become addicted, depending on their biological make up. Out of all the drugs I mentioned, methadone is the the only substitution drug. The others dont create a dependency or a high. They treat the cravings and compulsions. Drug therapy is a viable part of treatment for addictions, and you're going to be seeing more and more of it down the road. Edited by bionerd Sept. 29, 2006, 10:21:33 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #268,919 by Andrew Grygus 9/29/06 10:35:49 AM Reply	Are you and shizzy starting already? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #268,927 by bionerd 9/29/06 12:22:06 PM Reply	Oh, you are sooo funny No, the phone rang when I was posting and I momentarily got confused.

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