Probably have bigger impact outside the US

a further deterioration of opinion about the US, and deservedly so.

IIRC, The Guardian talked about this program a while back. Since part of their claims have now been acknowledged as being true, the question is are the rest of them true? For example, Bush said there were about a hundred people in the program, but the Guardian said there were around 7000... perhaps Bush was talking about one particular facility and that particular facility is now empty? Also, most of the world (including most of the West) will now be certain that the US is engaging in widespread torture. This will force people to ultimately conclude that there is little difference between the US and its purported foes.

IMhO, all of the US citizens on this board should start talking to their local journalists, asking them to find out the real story, and to tell it without mealy-mouthed government-euphemisms like the WP's "irregular interrogation methods". If the US is torturing people, the Fourth Estate in the US should say so quite bluntly. It might help US citizens understand the blackening of their reputation around the world.

--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #266,902 by JayMehaffey 9/7/06 9:23:41 AM Reply	Probably have bigger impact outside the US Sadly, this will probably have bigger impact outside the US. Governments in countries that are hosting these secret prisons illegally will face a lot more consequences then the President of the US. I expect to see a lot of misguided arguments over this in the press. The huge elephant will be ignored in the US, the obvious fact that the only reason to hold these people in secret outside the US for any significant length of time is to torture them. Jay
Post #266,903 by Silverlock 9/7/06 9:41:14 AM Reply	This is a campaign event The focus will promptly shift to how the Democrats are with the terrorists by not supporting the President's request for congressional approval of military tribunals. I'm a prophet. I now this because I foresaw it. ----------------------------------------- Impeach Bush. Impeach Cheney. Do it now.
Post #266,908 by jb4 9/7/06 9:57:02 AM Reply	Prophet Sheikh Silverlock al-yerBooty Has a nice, if somewhat politically incorrect, ring to it, doncha think? jb4 "So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't." — Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
Post #266,914 by Silverlock 9/7/06 10:45:21 AM Reply	:) ----------------------------------------- Impeach Bush. Impeach Cheney. Do it now.
Post #266,925 by jake123 9/7/06 12:50:14 PM Reply	The real impact outside of the US is going to be a further deterioration of opinion about the US, and deservedly so. IIRC, The Guardian talked about this program a while back. Since part of their claims have now been acknowledged as being true, the question is are the rest of them true? For example, Bush said there were about a hundred people in the program, but the Guardian said there were around 7000... perhaps Bush was talking about one particular facility and that particular facility is now empty? Also, most of the world (including most of the West) will now be certain that the US is engaging in widespread torture. This will force people to ultimately conclude that there is little difference between the US and its purported foes. IMhO, all of the US citizens on this board should start talking to their local journalists, asking them to find out the real story, and to tell it without mealy-mouthed government-euphemisms like the WP's "irregular interrogation methods". If the US is torturing people, the Fourth Estate in the US should say so quite bluntly. It might help US citizens understand the blackening of their reputation around the world. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #266,926 by jb4 9/7/06 12:56:01 PM Reply	The reason for that is... This will force people to ultimately conclude that there is little difference between the US and its purported foes. The reason for that is, there is no difference between he US and its purported foes. We just have bigger cars.... jb4 "So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't." — Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
Post #266,927 by jake123 9/7/06 12:58:41 PM Reply	No, you have a bigger army and that matters. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #266,932 by Another Scott 9/7/06 1:37:52 PM Reply	s /a bigger army/the most expensive military/
Post #266,934 by jake123 9/7/06 2:05:52 PM Reply	No, a bigger army That is part of it. The main point is that if the US gov feels free to torture people then everyone in the West needs to be concerned because we will all be painted by the same brush. To avoid this, other Western democracies will need to start distancing themselves from US strategic goals and interests, and do so quite publically. This will further enhance the paranoia of Thems Thats In Charge in the US, and will drive them to more extremism... and will eventually have a knock on effect on the lives of the US citizenry as a whole. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #266,935 by jb4 9/7/06 2:29:24 PM 9/7/06 3:35:06 PM Reply	What? You don't think we're being knocked on already? Why do you think Der Berk is on the stump, rousing the rabble with that Same Ol' Rovian Crap that allegedly got him "elected" in the first place? Hint: Because there's a very good chance he'll lose the House, and a fair-to-slight chance he'll lose the Senate as well. Seems the US populace may distance itself from US strategic goals and interests, and do so quite publically. jb4 "So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't." — Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06 Edited by jb4 Sept. 7, 2006, 03:35:06 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #266,942 by Another Scott 9/7/06 3:31:57 PM Reply	Eh? The US Army isn't very big at all, at least in terms of personnel. [link\|http://www.espritdecorps.ca/new_page_240.htm\|We're Number 6!]. We rank differently on [link\|http://www.diehardindian.com/overview/military.htm\|other scales], but the one we dominate above all others is military spending. Cheers, Scott.

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