Certainly...

Post #263,563 by bepatient 8/3/06 9:34:42 AM Reply	Certainly... making him the largest anti-semite of all time right behind Hitler (right???)...simply because his thought was to destroy Germany as quickly as possible, with all possible assets focussed on that one objective. My how the mind works sometimes. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,576 by bluke 8/3/06 9:59:16 AM Reply	Give me a break He couldn't spare a few bombs for the train tracks? Would that really have affetced the war effort? I didn't make him out to be a big anti-semite, what I said is that he was not interested in saving the Jews, a big difference.
Post #263,586 by bepatient 8/3/06 10:21:33 AM Reply	Really. Is there? I'd say the statement that he didn't care to save them (yours) would qualify as someone indifferent to their extermination...which I would translate into anti-semite pretty quickly. No, you didn't >say< it...but implication is certainly there. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,589 by bluke 8/3/06 10:30:24 AM 8/3/06 10:34:33 AM Reply	America and the Holocaust: Draw your own conclusions [link\|http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/holocaust/filmmore/reference/primary/index.html\|America and the Holocaust] President Roosevelt'S Apparent Reluctance To Help Europe'S Jews Entry from Assistant Secretary of State Breckinridge Long's diary in which he notes that President Roosevelt supports his policy of encouraging consulates to "postpone and postpone and postpone" the granting of visas A report written by Adoph Held, the president of the American Jewish Labor Committee recounting President Roosevelt's 29-minute meeting on December 8, 1942 with a small delegation of American Jewish Leaders After the State Department confirmed reports that Hitler was planning to murder all the Jews in territories under German control, several American Jewish leaders including Rabbi Stephen Wise managed to arrange an audience with President Roosevelt. At this meeting, the only one FDR had with Jewish leaders about the Holocaust, the President was presented with a document outlining the Nazi plan to annihilate European Jews. As this report of the meeting indicates, the president was acquainted with details of the atrocities being committed by the Nazis. Memorandum of Conversation by Mr. Harry L. Hopkins, Special Assistant to President Roosevelt regarding a meeting with Anthony Eden March 27, 1943 Four months after the State Department confirmed the dimensions of the Holocaust, British Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden met in Washington with President Roosevelt, Secretary of State Cordell Hull and Undersecretary of State Sumner Welles. At this meeting, Eden expressed his fear that Hitler might actually accept an offer from the Allies to move Jews out of areas under German control. No one present objected to Eden's statement. ... 6. Bombing Railways And Auschwitz Summary of the Auschwitz escapees report by Gerhart Riegner, World Jewish Congress, Geneva, sent under cover of R.E. Shoenfeld, U.S. charg\ufffd to Czech government in London, to Cordell Hull, Secretary of State, July 5, 1944 On April 7, 1944, two Slovakian Jews escaped from Auschwitz. By the end of the month they had reached the Jewish underground in Slovakia, where they gave a detailed account of the mass murder operations at the camp. The two men also warned that preparations were underway to murder the Jews of Hungary. Their report initiated a series of requests that the U.S. bomb the crematoria at Auschwitz and key rail links that would be used to transport Hungarian Jews to Poland. Henry Morgenthau, Jr., Secretary of the Treasury to Assistant Secretary of War, Jan 28, 1944, asking that Theater Commanders be advised to cooperate with WRB rescue operations Shortly after the establishment of the War Refugee Board, Henry Morgenthau, Jr. Secretary of the Treasury asked the War Department to advise theater commanders that they would be expected to cooperate with the Board in aiding "Axis victims to the fullest extent possible." No message to this effect was ever sent to military commanders. Thomas T. Handy, Assistant Chief of Staff, Memorandum for the Chief of Staff, February 8, 1944, on reassuring the British that military forces will not be used to rescue refugees Cable from Switzerland to Agudas Israel World Organizations, New York June 12, 1944 describing situation of Hungarian Jews and calling for bombing deportation railways As the Nazis began deporting Jews from Hungary to the Auschwitz death camp in Poland, requests to bomb the deportation railways were sent to the United States. Jacob Rosenheim, Agudas Israel World Organization, New York, to Henry Morgenthau, Jr., Secretary of the Treasury, June 18, 1944, asking that deportation rail lines be bombed Thomas Handy, Assistant Chief of Staff, War Department, to Director, Civil Affairs Division, June 26, 1944, conveying the Operations Division's conclusion that bombing the deportation railways is "impracticable" In line with its undeclared policy not to aid in the rescue of refugees, the War Department routinely turned down requests to bomb deportation railways. No studies were ever conducted to check the feasibility of such bombing raids. Draw you own conclusions. Edited by bluke Aug. 3, 2006, 10:34:33 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #263,595 by bepatient 8/3/06 10:55:05 AM Reply	Why, the authors already did. And say we HAD bombed Auschwitz...while full of innocent Jewish prisoners. What revisionist history would you be applying to >that<. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,597 by bluke 8/3/06 10:57:12 AM Reply	None and you know it
Post #263,602 by bepatient 8/3/06 11:12:49 AM Reply	somehow I doubt that Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,681 by Ashton 8/3/06 7:50:54 PM Reply	Just lookin fer loopholes, are we? Like clockwork - It would require Ballmer-class obfuscation to scurry around to assemble 'reasons' for the failure even to tear up a few RR tracks: the symbolic value alone, as with the Mitchell raid on Tokyo.. would have justified such a low-risk couple bombers or even fighter-bombers, with a few spares after another raid. There were So Many of those raids. If.. anyone actually Cared, even a mere tad. For all the Good Shows! earned in WW-II, this peculiar.. could be called -intentional- omission, in the face of much more evidence than, say, a unilateral Regime Change\ufffd invasion 'needed' 60 years later? - can be defended only by a jingoist. (The "trade of 10K trucks for Jews", now.?. that cynical offer was fraught with obvious problems on a variety of scales. Ripe for review, perhaps - but not nearly so stark an act of omission as was the above.)
Post #263,598 by bluke 8/3/06 11:04:13 AM Reply	It's no secret that America in the 1940's ... was on the whole a racist and anti-semitic place. This colored the decisions of the leadewrship as well.
Post #263,603 by bepatient 8/3/06 11:14:17 AM Reply	So you go from saying no such thing...to openly stating it. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,604 by bluke 8/3/06 11:20:10 AM Reply	Do you deny that America was a racist anti-semitic ... place then? Everything needs to be taken in context. Rossevelt and the US government would never have actually gone about killing Jews, they just didn't like them and didn't feel a great need to try to save them. Given the atmosphere of the day it doesn't surprise me. You are judging them by today's standards I am not.
Post #263,607 by boxley 8/3/06 11:24:23 AM Reply	whatchu mean then? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #263,610 by bluke 8/3/06 11:26:52 AM Reply	That given the overall atmosphere in the US Roosevelt was no more anti-semitic then the rest of the country.
Post #263,613 by boxley 8/3/06 11:31:58 AM Reply	I assume you have lived in America at some point Here we are free to be bigotted except in the matter of equal access to public discourse. Having said that, although bigots that we are we also played a huge role in the creation and defense of Israel. So when people here are calling for Israel to tone it down, you may heed that call or not. You live in a free society. Be aware though that alliances are not forever. Only Israel is in charge of Israel. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #263,616 by bluke 8/3/06 11:36:08 AM Reply	Born and bred in NYC I lived from birth until the age of 30. I have tremendous appreciation for the US and understand the US role with Israel. It doesn't change the facts about WWII.
Post #263,683 by Ashton 8/3/06 8:03:12 PM Reply	That was my experience then, too - Think it a fair statement that Roosevelt reflected no extreme view - from my experence growing up here, daily hearing the vox populi; it was not necessary even to use the ever-popular weasel euphemisms like 'darkies' for nigras/niggers; there was a wide assortment of nasty mouth-breather-grade 'nicks for Jews. I Heard Them All. I concur - FDR was Everyman, in that regard. (And, as our 'Conservatives' are today the 'Reactionaries' of that period when language had not been G\ufffdbbelsized to the extremes of '06: many are Still living 1940s slogans, from right here in Yuppie wine country --> to the wastelands of the Rust Belt.) Pity. Maybe the transistorized-kids can skip a couple generations - having grown up with, become inured to? the lies on kiddie-ad-pushing Tee Vee for New Consumers. Maybe.

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