ROFL. And you have nothing to fear from your surveillance

Post #260,718

7/4/06 10:57:35 PM

state.

Just keep saying 'it can't happen here'.

ROFL.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #260,728

by warmachine

7/5/06 3:25:21 AM

Cameras are easy targets

If the British government started using cameras for mass murders or arrests, the cameras wouldn't last long. And as I've said before, depends on national culture. Few Japanese have guns yet their government hasn't turned into a genocidal monster.

The author of the book is confusing cause and effect. Lack of guns does not turn a regime monstrous, the regime becomes monstrous and then seeks to control guns. Does he think the US federal government is planning for domestic mass murders or mass arrests? I think they're evil and even I don't think they'd do that. Maybe, I'm just a cheerful optimist who never uses facetious, doom-and-gloom phrases.

Matthew Greet

Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.

Post #260,731

by imric

7/5/06 7:23:34 AM

Sure it wouldn't last long.

What could you do about it?

Nothing.

And - 'national culture' is unchanging and immortal?

ROFL^2.

itcanthappenhereitwonthappenhereournationalcultureissuperiorwewouldnevergothatfar

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #260,733

by warmachine

7/5/06 8:12:48 AM

As you're pushing this...

I agree that it is plausible that the UK will become a fascist state in the near future. But what makes you think the strict gun control will lead to the domestic mass murder envisioned by the author of that book?

I regard British culture as too tolerant for mass violence against a particular group. Even Abu Hamza was tolerated for too long. Instead, I envisage a corrupt form of capitalism with endemic poverty and an overbearing nanny state but no domestic genocide. A sort of neo-Victorianism. Guns don't help against political corruption.

And yes, cultures do change but that's plain guessing.

And while you're at it, why do you think gun control will lead to the domestic mass murder envisioned by the author in the USA?

Post #260,768

by imric

7/5/06 1:38:36 PM

Because we HAVE a rebellious streak.

Suppressed as it may be.

It has never gone away - neither has our mistrust of government agencies. Right now, it is being ameliorated and redirected with false patriotism; pushed too far and the blowback from the people will be frightening.

Wrong as it is, we really don't care about anybody but our own. Agression turned outward is far safer for our government and their corporate masters than internal targets. Betray the people, family, friends, etc - and the anger will emerge in a deadly way. So long as the people have guns, the government must tread (on us) more lightly than it otherwise would.

Remember, we've gone on strike with shotguns many times in our past. And that's just for wages.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #260,802

by warmachine

7/5/06 5:51:38 PM

So, you're scaring away which mass murderers?

So, Americans are distrustful of government and snarl to remind them to tread lightly. You prefer the guns to emphasise this point. Your reply suggests that, without the guns, the footprint of government would still be fairly light.

Which is still a different argument from the author's implication that US government agents are itching to massacre people. You're not supporting his, or boxley's, argument at all.

And I still can't see why you think the British government are hoping to commit mass violence on their own citizens.

Post #260,823

by boxley

7/5/06 7:33:16 PM

does shooting up muslims in their homes in the am count?

Waco,
Ruby Ridge,
SLA
black folk
we just had a dekalb Policeman killed, he managed to kill the suspect. As the cop was being hauled off by paramedics the residents were cheering. During the funeral procession some firemen were standing at attention on an overpass. A car went by and the passenger said "dats what cho get wen chu fuck wid people from louisiana"
white folk
thanx,
bill

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep

Post #260,829

by warmachine

7/5/06 8:30:11 PM

State police are gun-toting murderers?

So, you're saying that a significant number of policemen and law enforcement agents deliberately murder. Rather than being incompetant. Most deaths at the hands of the police are indeed conspiracies, not cock ups. Your argument is that there should be little or no gun control so civilians can shoot any policeman (or anyone else) they believe is going for the kill. And as the residents of Waco already had guns, weapon ownership should extend to heavier, combat weapons.

On that premise, implying the US government are itching for mass murder is reasonable. This makes the author sane after all. Heavy weapons in the US to be used against policemen you don't trust will do wonders for law enforcement.

Post #260,837

by Ashton

7/5/06 9:29:30 PM

{chortle}___What we do here -

What we do here ...

Is so often dictated by the unrestrained reptile brain ...

Think: a putative Presyudent using the word crusade!, as he reads his prepared 'speech', in the State of the Onion dramatic presentation; one designed to get US into a land war in Asia SAP (that's 'soon-as-possible', in TLA-speak here.)

- that 'logic', such as you employ above, imply just might be of some use in these matters? Well, that's just crazy right there.

Try parsing some of the legalobabble in a few of our laws; even the ones who are cajoled/lobbied into passing these things ~ as wordy as the source for Doze - have little idea of the consequences of what they just signed. But some things just won't ever come up for review, anytime soon.

Nope, 'guns-' (with about any predicate you might invent) - are Holy Scripture, meaning that there is probably Nothing temperate which could be done about decimating their presence everywhere, including among just enough nasty (or scared or..) pre-teens, that, well ______

Of course too, new tech shall likely bring us the pocket-sized rocket launcher with RDX or other super-brissant bang-makers, any time now, so even your small exaggeration may'nt be that far off the mark.

(Yeah, we're nutzo; maybe it's ~~ the Indians' vengeance for those blankets infected with smallpox and the rest of that genocide? Who knows.)

Post #260,858

by boxley

7/6/06 8:51:52 AM

seems like you either have a lot of cockups

or your gun toting police really want to kill the people they are sworn to protect. Pick one.

On Waco it seems that everytime a standoff occurs, a little teargas is always used that just happens to turn the target into a fiery inferno. You think after the first few dozen times they might adjust the formula of the teargas so that doesnt happen.
thanx,
bill

Post #260,856

by imric

7/6/06 7:50:51 AM

Enjoy your slide

Down to the bottom. Down to where people are just resources to be managed.

But you'll be safe and watched.

Like cattle in a pen.

With armed citizens we have more of a chance of avoiding that endpoint.

Distrust of governments got us that right.

What will you do when you get a Stalin?

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #260,857

by pwhysall

7/6/06 8:19:57 AM

Believe what you like...

...but you've got the PATRIOT act, the DMCA and the Department Of Homeland Security, and we don't, plus our government isn't allowed to tap our phone without a warrant "just because". Hell, they're having all-on to get the right to hold Terrierist suspects for more than 14 days after the 90 day thing got tossed by The Democratic Process (without guns).

Safe, watched resources to be hired and fired at will. You're already there.

You're in a minority - the minority of people who actually notice these things. The disturbing thing about The Great Ignorant Unwashed is just how Great, Ignorant and Unwashed they are. They really, really don't give a shit what happens vis a vis surveillance, vis a vis security, vis a vis civil rights, and all that stuff that's either been flushed down the crapper or is currently circling the bowl (and which your gun ownership has done precisely nothing to preserve).

People are stupid. You need to accept this fact.

Post #260,889

by drewk

7/6/06 12:20:55 PM

7/6/06 12:21:29 PM

Who needs your phone, when they've got the data?

I'm sure you just love the idea of [link|http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/05/nhs_readers_letter/|handing out your medical records] to all and sundry, right?

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]

Edited by drewk July 6, 2006, 12:21:29 PM EDT

Expand All History

Post #260,894

by pwhysall

7/6/06 12:36:08 PM

Oh, that data's safe.

Large UK-government IT project. EDS or Fudgit ICL or Accenturate or whatever the favoured "consultant" company is these days will come in, spend a billion quid or so, declare the task impossible, at which point the NHS will return to the beginning of the loop by arsing up the spec and bunging it back out to tender anyway.

Oh, you were under the impression that this database would actually work? Nah, we don't do that.

Post #260,901

by drewk

7/6/06 1:05:24 PM

Incompetence is unreliably reliable

Besides, they don't have to get it right for the info to get out. What if the only thing they get wrong[1] is that they can't control who has access to it?

[1] Other than spending a billion quid or so, declaring the task impossible, and returning to the beginning of the loop by arsing up the spec and bunging it back out to tender, that is.

Way OT note: Google spellchecker didn't have any problems with "arsing" or "bunging".

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]

Post #260,741

by jake123

7/5/06 9:19:53 AM

Actually, you both have something to fear, they're just

not the same thing.

You think you've got nothing to be afraid of Imric? You don't think that if the army was onside, the US gov couldn't put any citizen it wanted into a dirt nap? Try again.

--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #260,763

by pwhysall

7/5/06 12:35:44 PM

More to the point

Do you honestly think that J Average Citizen would get off his couch, put down his beer and turn off the NASCAR just to get involved in something as boring as politics?

There's easier ways to oppress your citizens than with guns.

Skip, go re-read Brave New World.

Post #260,765

by imric

7/5/06 1:23:07 PM

We CAN at least.

For now. Unless the people that want to disarm lawful citizens have their way.

If they do, then things become a WHOLE lot simpler.

Because bullying with guns and propaganda is more effective than propaganda alone.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #260,787

by pwhysall

7/5/06 3:57:35 PM

You're missing the point.

The gubmint isn't stupid. It knows that key to furthering whatever nefarious agenda is a dumb, docile populace. Keep the beer cheap, keep the sports coming, give them immigrants, paedophiles, sand niggers and commies to hate, and you've got them where you want them. They'll just grumble a bit and go along with whatever you do.

Shit, give 'em guns! It doesn't matter - hardly anyone can shoot worth a damn anyway, and the gubmint will be using helicopters, tanks and Dubya Em Dees against We The People ANYWAY, so who gives a fuck if they've got the odd shotgun or badly-maintained, badly-operated handgun? Who gives a fuck if they've got one each?

"Have the right to bear THIS, you commie motherfucker!"

*fires Hellfire missiles at well-armed but somewhat drunk yokels in truck*

Guns don't equate to freedom - every kid in Somalia has an AK-47 or knows where to get one, for example.

An informed, educated populace with a strong democratic system equates to freedom.

So go on, get all excited about guns[0]. The gubmint loves that, because it keeps you from being interested in the real threat to their powerbase.

[0]Of course, if the right to bear arms means tanks'n'choppers'n'cruise'n'shit, then that's a whole different ball game.

Post #260,797

by imric

7/5/06 4:39:28 PM

Stuff and nonsense.

If you want to believe that only redneck yokels that don't know how to keep their guns clean, well oiled and ready are gun owners, fine. The fact that I know judges, lawyers, teachers, and engineers that keep an arsenals - down to their own loaders - tends to put paid to your fantasy that only uneducated people are armed here.

And as to bread and circuses theories - that might work many places, but the government has pushed too far before.

Finally, understand that the armed populace FAR outnumbers the police, national guard, and all the armed forces combined. Further, rebellion is honored here to an extent you may not really understand. Hell - look at 1/2 our movies! Tell me, how many of them are hymns to fitting in, getting along, obeying? How many of them glorify kicking the CR@P out of government officials that have gone too far?

And as far as it being a first resort, that's not true either. But we stand more of a chance with the system and guns than with the system alone.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Welcome to IWETHEY!