After sending the car to a place I trust.

The first guy found a single broken wire in the harness. It ran... for a bit agin and then died (few seconds this time).

This guy gave up on the car after 12 hours of working on it.

Second mechanic, the "hotshot" of the shop, gave up after about 12 hours invested.

Third guy, looked at it for ~2 hours said: "Nope I am not gonna get it fixed, I give up."

The fourth and by far the most "experienced" mechanic at the place, 45 years doing mechanics... he went back to basics, first thing he did was test compression. 50# of pressure, very low for this car. The tells him the Cam is out of time with the crank.

He opens the view ports on the crank cog and cam cog (being belts you know), they line up just fine...

Then he remove the covers and check... sure enough I put everything in proper placement. With a piece of welding rod, he checked through the spark plug hole to make sure the piston was at top dead center. The cogs were lined up perfect. But the Camshaft was not at TDC for #1.

Pulls the bolt off the camshaft cog and sees part of the camshaft timing key laying there loose. he only thing that was holding the camshaft in "sorta time" was the Bolt on the camshaft.

Drilled out the old one, replaced it with a $.75 key, buttoned it all back up and started and kept running, infact it runs fantastic.

They only charged me for the last guys time and materials. $225 to find the busted key. Its a good thing I know these guys.

The thing is, no amount of diagnostic equipment helped. It was good-ole "back to basics" that saved the day.

edit:
Only charged me $200, but he explained the hotshot had done some cutting and digging in the wires I had replaced and used wire nuts to connect them back. No big deal. I just have to get some more lined heat shrink tubing (seals the connection with a hotglue like stuff inside the tubing).

At least it runs and actually runs very well. Not for me to degrease and pressure wash the engine compartment. Then fix one last item (I hope) the right side tie-rod end, it is a bit sloppy, with about 1/16" of slop. Not bad, but this is my Grandkid's (to be) Mother's car and I am not taking a chance.

They're like "default allow" network security. You can only catch the nasties that you've seen before and explicitly tell the system what symptoms to look for. And with the diagnostics, they also tend to assume digital failure modes: it's either working or it's not. They don't deal well with cases like yours of intermittent functioning.

Readers' Digest did a story a while ago where they took a thoroughly-checked car to dozens of different mechanics and service stations. The only problem was that they loosened one of the spark-plug wires just before driving in, so it was occasionally arcing. At one station, the 19-year-old mechanic hooked up the computer, waited five minutes for the result -- without ever looking under the hood -- and pronounced them in need of a new crankshaft. Hey, it's what the computer said.

Post #256,426 by folkert 5/23/06 3:02:17 PM 5/24/06 2:56:16 AM Reply	After sending the car to a place I trust. The first guy found a single broken wire in the harness. It ran... for a bit agin and then died (few seconds this time). This guy gave up on the car after 12 hours of working on it. Second mechanic, the "hotshot" of the shop, gave up after about 12 hours invested. Third guy, looked at it for ~2 hours said: "Nope I am not gonna get it fixed, I give up." The fourth and by far the most "experienced" mechanic at the place, 45 years doing mechanics... he went back to basics, first thing he did was test compression. 50# of pressure, very low for this car. The tells him the Cam is out of time with the crank. He opens the view ports on the crank cog and cam cog (being belts you know), they line up just fine... Then he remove the covers and check... sure enough I put everything in proper placement. With a piece of welding rod, he checked through the spark plug hole to make sure the piston was at top dead center. The cogs were lined up perfect. But the Camshaft was not at TDC for #1. Pulls the bolt off the camshaft cog and sees part of the camshaft timing key laying there loose. he only thing that was holding the camshaft in "sorta time" was the Bolt on the camshaft. Drilled out the old one, replaced it with a $.75 key, buttoned it all back up and started and kept running, infact it runs fantastic. They only charged me for the last guys time and materials. $225 to find the busted key. Its a good thing I know these guys. The thing is, no amount of diagnostic equipment helped. It was good-ole "back to basics" that saved the day. edit: Only charged me $200, but he explained the hotshot had done some cutting and digging in the wires I had replaced and used wire nuts to connect them back. No big deal. I just have to get some more lined heat shrink tubing (seals the connection with a hotglue like stuff inside the tubing). At least it runs and actually runs very well. Not for me to degrease and pressure wash the engine compartment. Then fix one last item (I hope) the right side tie-rod end, it is a bit sloppy, with about 1/16" of slop. Not bad, but this is my Grandkid's (to be) Mother's car and I am not taking a chance. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned. Edited by folkert May 24, 2006, 02:56:16 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #256,427 by Another Scott 5/23/06 3:11:49 PM Reply	Wow. I'll have to file that one away.. Keep that mechanic!
Post #256,433 by bepatient 5/23/06 4:07:37 PM Reply	Agree with that...he's a keeper. Wish I had that guy. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #256,434 by drewk 5/23/06 4:16:57 PM Reply	That's why I don't like modern diagnostics They're like "default allow" network security. You can only catch the nasties that you've seen before and explicitly tell the system what symptoms to look for. And with the diagnostics, they also tend to assume digital failure modes: it's either working or it's not. They don't deal well with cases like yours of intermittent functioning. Readers' Digest did a story a while ago where they took a thoroughly-checked car to dozens of different mechanics and service stations. The only problem was that they loosened one of the spark-plug wires just before driving in, so it was occasionally arcing. At one station, the 19-year-old mechanic hooked up the computer, waited five minutes for the result -- without ever looking under the hood -- and pronounced them in need of a new crankshaft. Hey, it's what the computer said. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]

Welcome to IWETHEY!