Not really

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Post #255,626

Picture of bepatient

5/16/06 5:40:09 PM

Not really

understand all the dynamics but also understand the growth projections and the situation that puts the ATC system in...and nearly all the growth is in private aviation. The current structure cannot support that and must change. Current proposal isnt great...but something has to give.

You call it "screwing the little guy", but you aren't likely going to see the impact of the change as much as the vlj market and corporate aircraft...which must be tracked along with the big boys...so why should they bear essentially the entire burden of the system? They are calling it "getting screwed by the little guy"...and somewhere in the middle lies the truth :-)

I have no such perception that VLJs aren't real airplanes. Simply saying that they aren't "corporate aircraft" in the Fortune 500 sense of the term.

I am sure that some of these jets are going to small business owners and maybe even some fractional programs and will develop into a force in the market...but right now when some says "corporate jet", they are talking about something along the lines of a Gulfstream.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition}

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]

Post #255,773

5/17/06 3:49:02 PM

Or Hawkers, Lears, Cessna Citations, etc.

Agree w/you about what "corporate jets" means to the non-pilot contingent. But you made a minor(?) mistake:

you aren't likely going to see the impact of the change as much as the vlj market and corporate aircraft...which must be tracked along with the big boys...

First, what the airlines are lobbying for is user fees for *any* atc contact. I enjoy flying, not yacking on the radio, but occasionally I will use VFR flight following and sometimes, if I can't avoid it, I have to call approach to transit Class C airports. That'd incur a charge for a service the regs say will be provided "workload permitting". That means I may be paying for nothing. And here's a really grand example: I'm flying direct to FGX from C62. My direct path takes me through Dayton's airspace. Here's a hypothetical conversation:

Me: "Dayton Approach, Cessna 7522 tango, 10 northwest, level at 3,500, direct to FGX."
Dayton Approach: "Cessna 22 tango remain clear of class charley airspace."
Me: "22 tango."

He just told me I can't enter his airspace, so I get to fly around it *AND* if the big boys have their way, I'll get charged $10.00 as a bonus because I used the radio. What could be more fair than that?

Second, if the VLJ's stay below 18,000 they do *not* have to be tracked at all. Nor do they have to use ATC.

bcnu,
Mikem

It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell

Executives Take Company Planes as if Their Own - (bluke) - (31) - May 10, 2006, 03:10:08 AM EDT

Boy, is that backwards - (drewk) - (16) - May 10, 2006, 11:11:27 AM EDT

Convert their salaries to wages. - (mmoffitt) - (15) - May 10, 2006, 04:14:42 PM EDT

If you look at it that way, Blue Star Jets makes more sense. - (Another Scott) - (7) - May 10, 2006, 04:29:30 PM EDT

Yes, this is something that should be outsourced - (ben_tilly) - (6) - May 10, 2006, 06:24:04 PM EDT

I've seen this once - (bepatient) - (5) - May 10, 2006, 07:03:00 PM EDT

Wanna bet the chairman made more than 200K? :-P -NT - (ben_tilly) - (4) - May 10, 2006, 08:34:48 PM EDT

Yes he did. I did the budgets. - (bepatient) - (3) - May 10, 2006, 08:42:22 PM EDT

But it was for you. :-P - (ben_tilly) - (2) - May 10, 2006, 08:44:37 PM EDT

Too low on the totem poll to bitch - (bepatient) - (1) - May 10, 2006, 09:21:19 PM EDT

Random thought... - (ben_tilly) - May 16, 2006, 05:05:16 PM EDT

True, but ... - (drewk) - May 10, 2006, 04:43:10 PM EDT

Sorry. No. You are not correct. - (bepatient) - (5) - May 10, 2006, 06:15:18 PM EDT

If time is money, it most certainly is more efficient. - (mmoffitt) - (4) - May 16, 2006, 02:58:21 PM EDT

VLJs are not corporate jets. - (bepatient) - (3) - May 16, 2006, 03:15:40 PM EDT

Now you're completely wrong. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - May 16, 2006, 04:48:37 PM EDT

Not really - (bepatient) - (1) - May 16, 2006, 05:40:09 PM EDT

Or Hawkers, Lears, Cessna Citations, etc. - (mmoffitt) - May 17, 2006, 03:49:02 PM EDT

Two Words - (pwhysall) - (13) - May 11, 2006, 03:03:18 AM EDT

And there are some very cool solutions - (bepatient) - (10) - May 11, 2006, 09:22:19 AM EDT

Two things they lack: - (admin) - (2) - May 11, 2006, 09:44:42 AM EDT

Also, a key element, unacknowledged by many but definitely - (jake123) - May 11, 2006, 09:46:16 AM EDT

Also, could be recorded! -NT - (broomberg) - May 11, 2006, 09:57:09 AM EDT

They are missing some other things as well - (ben_tilly) - (6) - May 11, 2006, 06:03:45 PM EDT

That was exactly my point -NT - (jake123) - May 11, 2006, 10:49:27 AM EDT

So, to summarise: - (pwhysall) - (4) - May 11, 2006, 05:55:53 PM EDT

That wasn't a summary - that was missing the point. -NT - (ben_tilly) - (3) - May 11, 2006, 06:04:41 PM EDT

No, I didn't. - (pwhysall) - (1) - May 11, 2006, 06:12:00 PM EDT

Look at who I was responding to - (ben_tilly) - May 11, 2006, 06:54:02 PM EDT

ICLRPD that wasn't a summary - that was missing the point. (new thread) - (boxley) - May 11, 2006, 06:30:46 PM EDT

Very hard to video conference golf -NT - (JayMehaffey) - (1) - May 12, 2006, 10:15:01 AM EDT

Golden Tee. -NT - (jake123) - May 12, 2006, 10:25:54 AM EDT

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