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New Lovely use of statistics
ONLY 1659 estates had taxes due and ONLY 138 were FORCED to borrow to pay taxes (9 months to come up with cash is the law).

So, on a venture that doesn't make alot to begin with, 138 last year were forced into MORE DEBT to maintain themselves.

All so you can "sock it" to the rich guys.

How about we throw in how many total farm estates there were so we could get a percentage of the total?

That might make that stat a little less comfortable for those trying to turn this into an urban myth. And all you have to do is look in the South Jersey papers to see the impact around here.

But, heck, its only a tradition we're squashing so we can "fairly tax" Bill Gates.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Figures where for 2000, current rate is lower.
The figures I mentioned where for 2000, the current tax rate is lower and the exemption higher.

The underlying report is here: [link|http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/65xx/doc6512/07-06-EstateTax.pdf|CBO EstateTax.pdf]. I'm sure the figure your looking for is in there some place, I don't have time to read through it right now.

Jay
New Re: Figures where for 2000, current rate is lower.
For farmers, business assets made up a much larger proportion
of estates\ufffd wealth: 51 percent in 1999 and 43 percent
in 2000. Liquid assets made up a smaller, but still
substantial, share of their estates: just over 40 percent in
both years. That smaller proportion of liquid assets suggests
that estate taxes may be more likely to exceed liquid
assets for estates of farmers, potentially requiring estates
to liquidate other assets. However, farm estates are generally
small, and the estate tax therefore consumes a smaller
percentage of the gross estate (an average of 11 percent
and a median of 9 percent in 2000). In fact, tax data
show that in 1999, about 12 percent of farmers\ufffd estates
that owed estate taxes faced a liability greater than their
liquid assets. In 2000, the corresponding figure was 8
percent.

That situation is more pronounced for estates claiming
the QFOBI deduction. Business assets made up at least
75 percent of those estates\ufffd wealth, on average.30 In addition,
the average tax owed was a higher percentage of the
gross estate for those estates than for estates in general (14
percent compared with 13 percent for all estates filing
returns). As a consequence, one-third of estates claiming
the QFOBI deduction and owing taxes in 2000 could
not pay the estate tax out of their reported liquid assets.
As before, the fact that liquid assets do not include some
trusts means that that figure represents the maximum
number of estates with insufficient liquid assets to pay the
estate tax.


So, of those farmers forced to file, about 10% of them were charged taxes IN EXCESS of liquid assets.

And for small business, that number was 33%.

Of course, soften the effect for the readers by saying "Maybe they had money socked away somewhere else to soften the blow".

This is lifted straight out of the report.

So, if you are a small business and you happen to be in the valuation range...1 in 3 shot puts you in the "forced sale" category.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
     18 wealthy families behind estate tax repeal movement. - (inthane-chan) - (87)
         And rightly so. - (pwhysall)
         the income/equity has already been taxed once - (boxley) - (84)
             Disagree. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                 There are many bad things in life. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                     "They'll tax the pennies on your eyes" (new thread) - (jb4)
                 hogwash, you think they sit around on piles of money? - (boxley)
             What is fair? - (ben_tilly) - (76)
                 so if you get mugged its fair if you are rich? -NT - (boxley) - (75)
                     It's income. Tax it. -NT - (Silverlock) - (74)
                         Fair enough. As income. -NT - (imric)
                         income should be taxed, savings from income already taxed - (boxley) - (72)
                             Exactly. -NT - (pwhysall)
                             That is it in a nutshell. - (bepatient) - (42)
                                 Bah. - (Another Scott) - (23)
                                     how very marxist of you - (boxley) - (19)
                                         I don't think Teddy was a Marxist. -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                             For those who don't understand that comment... - (ben_tilly)
                                         You have to have balance - (ben_tilly) - (16)
                                             so advocating theft of private property to balance power is - (boxley) - (15)
                                                 Yes, it is. - (ben_tilly) - (14)
                                                     Oh you mean national socialism, got it -NT - (boxley) - (13)
                                                         Nice insult - (ben_tilly) - (12)
                                                             not an isult just a description of what you want to do - (boxley) - (11)
                                                                 Then use another description - (ben_tilly) - (10)
                                                                     well lets see, that party believed that all wealth was at - (boxley) - (9)
                                                                         You been taking rhetoric lessons from BeeP? - (jb4) - (8)
                                                                             Sorry Ben, Ascribed a quote from Todd to You - (boxley) - (7)
                                                                                 I don't think that's the "banker" he meant - (drewk) - (5)
                                                                                     maybe not but the freekin local squire with his hand out - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                         What are you gonna do with it - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                                             I think my kids could sqander as efficiently as a government -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                             Not spend it on invading Iraq, for one thing. -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                                                     It was a reference to Monopoly -NT - (tuberculosis)
                                                                                 The usual quote is "rags to rags in three generations" - (ben_tilly)
                                     And you'll see me be very consistent - (bepatient)
                                     I see your Bah and raise you a Feh. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                         Wow, is that ever a 'well worn' arguement. - (Andrew Grygus)
                                 Cry me up a river - (ben_tilly) - (12)
                                     so having a rich dad is a detriment - (boxley) - (11)
                                         What do you call having a poor dad then? - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                             s/few years/rest of your life - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                                                 I said a nice place :-P - (ben_tilly)
                                             whenever someone takes 1/2 of mine it gets detrimental - (boxley) - (1)
                                                 It wasn't yours - (ben_tilly)
                                         Please provide verifiable references . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (5)
                                             :-) - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                 Yeah, we had that in my family too. - (Andrew Grygus)
                                             Andrew Jackson's Grandchildren - (boxley) - (2)
                                                 Eh? - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                     When I was at the Hermitage I saw info that had the begats - (boxley)
                                 Its a tax on *personal* wealth - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                     Small set of victims is larger than the set your after. - (bepatient) - (3)
                                         s /surf/serf/ "Surf's up at Wal-Mart!" :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                         I disagree on how good it is - (ben_tilly)
                                         not if you measure in dollars - (tuberculosis)
                             Look at it from the child's point of view - (ben_tilly) - (27)
                                 Difference is, when you get that income - (bepatient) - (19)
                                     So I don't keep the house, big deal. - (ben_tilly)
                                     Easy - (JayMehaffey) - (17)
                                         Since you've never had this happen to someone you know - (bepatient) - (16)
                                             Compromise suggested - (ben_tilly)
                                             Don't know about New Jersey - (JayMehaffey) - (4)
                                                 Selling part of a farm - (imric)
                                                 Lovely use of statistics - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                     Figures where for 2000, current rate is lower. - (JayMehaffey) - (1)
                                                         Re: Figures where for 2000, current rate is lower. - (bepatient)
                                             Latest numbers and info from the IRS. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                 Estate tax level is current wacky - (JayMehaffey)
                                             Re: Since you've never had this happen to someone you know - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                                                 Try.. - (bepatient) - (6)
                                                     Nota bene - (jake123)
                                                     All true, but that's a different problem - (drewk)
                                                     Mortgage or move - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                                         Interesting take - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                             So take Ben's solution. - (inthane-chan)
                                                             I have no intention - (tuberculosis)
                                 why should you have to pay %50 taxes because your - (boxley) - (1)
                                     simple, your parents had more money...that makes it fair. -NT - (bepatient)
                                 Does your father(s estate) get to write off the expense? - (drewk) - (4)
                                     I know someone who did it. - (broomberg) - (2)
                                         I know multiple people who've done that - (ben_tilly)
                                         That's a little different, as I understand it. - (Another Scott)
                                     Its called a living trust came into being with the ERISA law -NT - (boxley)
             This tax was deliberately confiscatory when introduced. - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                 I'd agree with that -NT - (ben_tilly)
                 She's got vast... tracts of land. -NT - (jake123)
         This surprises you? -NT - (tuberculosis)

We're on a mission from GRR.
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