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New Remember 1973-1974?
Eventually political supporters get sick of the drip, drip, drip and decide it's time to move on.

Clinton's opponents probably hoped the "coffeemaker" analogy would also work in his case, but it didn't. We can argue about the differences, but it would just be another example of the imperfect correspondence between analogies and real life.

Bush and the Republicans aren't out of the woods yet. It's hard to believe that something important won't go wrong in the next 8 months - something that can't be blamed on underlings, or Clinton. Note that oil prices haven't come down much since Katrina...

The "He's one of us" things confuses me. Is it all just spin by Rove, et al.? Is the political "Conservative Christian" movement that powerful? Or is it just that the electorate was sufficiently evenly divided that he managed to squeak through a couple of times? He's not Conservative in the traditional sense. He's not for Limited Government in the traditional sense. He's not for Limited Foreign Entanglements in the traditional sense. He's not a Strong Anti-Communist in the traditional sense. Do the political CC people really like him so much? I'd say it had more to do with them strongly disliking Gore and Kerry rather than loving him. But, the political operatives and exit pollsters managed to brainwash the reporters about the 2004 results, so instead it has come to be accepted wisdom that [link|http://www.beliefnet.com/story/155/story_15546_1.html|"moral values"] (whatever that means) swung the election to Bush. (When, in fact, ~ 50k people in Ohio made the difference.)

Don't be so glum. [link|http://www.backwardsbush.com/|1053+ days to go]. :-)

Cheers,
Scott.
(Who really wishes that a national Republican candidate would call Dobson's and Reed's bluff. Does anyone really think that the political CCs are going to stay home on election day? They'd shrivel up without the benefit of hands-on political power.)
New I still say the model has changed.
We used to vote for Presidents because they represented us. We LIKED them because "were on of us."

That has changed. I didn't like Clinton because he represented me. (I didn't hate him either). But he royally PISSED off the other side (which I disliked).

Likewise I suspect that most people don't give a damn for/against George Bush. But they recognize he PISSES off the other side and they DON'T LIKE THEM.

And I still say that if this has happened (and continues) there is a VERY good chance that Hillary could win the Presidency.
New It's possible. Depends on the Repub candidate though.
This reminds me of a [link|http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/03/nyregion/03challenger.html?ei=5094&en=9b20ef7d01deff2b&hp=&ex=1141448400&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print|NY Times] story today:

While Mrs. Clinton already has $17 million to spend on the race, Ms. McFarland has raised about $600,000 for her Congressional bid, though she and her husband, Alan, an investment banker, are wealthy. Mr. Rollins said she would be more successful than Ms. Pirro with Republican donors nationwide because of her history with President Reagan and her work on military issues, such as being an author of his famous "Star Wars" speech.

"She has the stature and gravitas that Republicans will embrace," Mr. Rollins said. "The former mayor of Yonkers is not necessarily going to be viewed as an impressive candidate by major figures in the party."

Mr. Spencer, who has been running since last spring, dismissed Ms. McFarland in an interview as "a liberal Manhattan Republican elitist" and said she was too late because he had won support from Republicans and the Conservative Party's executive committee. The full Conservative Party will pick its candidate in May; every Republican who has won statewide since 1974 has had its endorsement.

Under Mr. Spencer, crime rates and local taxes fell in Yonkers, and new schools and waterfront projects were built. Yet he had controversy: As mayor, while married, he fathered two children with his chief of staff. After years of questions, he publicly acknowledged the relationship, divorced his wife and married his former aide.

For Stephen J. Minarik III, the state Republican chairman who recruited Ms. Pirro and is now helping Mr. Spencer, it has been a long year of strategizing that he would like to conclude without a Republican primary battle. He said the door was not closed on Ms. McFarland \ufffd who just met yesterday with Joseph L. Bruno, the Senate majority leader \ufffd but it was very late to start a candidacy.

"We really have to turn our sights onto Hillary Clinton," Mr. Minarik said, "and stop her before she can run for president."


Oooh. A speechwriter with "gravitas". :-/

It sounds like a rerun of the [link|http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/08/senate.illinois.keyes/index.html|Obama vs. Keyes] race. And we know how that turned out. It's "nice" to see that the Republicans seem to think that all women and minorities are interchangable to their voters.

As things stand now, Clinton should win her Senate race very easily. She'll be in a very good position to run in 2008 for President, if she chooses to do so.

Cheers,
Scott.
Expand Edited by Another Scott March 3, 2006, 10:10:48 AM EST
New No senator is ever in a "good position" for that race.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Another way of saying
My enemys enemy is my friend? I suppose it's possible, but I still think that people vote against somebody rather than for somebody else. Hillary vs. DeLay would be a toughie for me as I think they're both terrible. It's hard to guess who's worse. I don't really care who else they're pissing off. Hillary vs. McCain would be easier; I only dislike McCain and still think Hillary is despicable. I don't think I've ever voted for a politician. That's sad.
New That IS sad
I guess you're too young to have voted for [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bayard_Anderson|John Anderson] in 1980. He is the reason I'm still a registered Republican(Gasp!)
jb4
"Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'."
&mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
New Not too young.
In that time period, I was too disgusted with national politics to get involved in primary elections. I considered that the party fat cats would get who they wanted whether I put my time in or not. I read up on the selected miscreants, held my nose, and voted for the (hopefully) least vile. Sometimes I voted wrong in retrospect, but my selection usually does not get voted in. My current feeling is that voting is probably a waste of time, but by now it is a hard habit to break. And it's not that much time, and if I vote, I am entitled to bitch later. Not that it does any good.
New One small point of clarification:
Note that oil prices haven't come down much since Katrina...


Actually, oil prices have comen down somewhat, from over $70/bbl int he Katrina aftermath to the low $60's/bbl today (in fact, last week they were belo w $60/bbl). the price of gasoline on the other hand has not gone down. In fact, at my station they are as high now (w/ $62/bbl oil) as they were post-Katrina (at $70/bbl oil). So anybody (like BeeP) who stubbornly insists that the "market will adjust" is either lying, or ignoring the increasingly obvious fact that the "market" is being manipulated.

I wish I had thought to track gasoline prices vs. oil prices to be able to graphically represent how badly we're being screwed. I should get started now, because it isn't likely to get better (until 2008).


34% and falling....
jb4
"Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'."
&mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Expand Edited by jb4 March 3, 2006, 10:32:22 AM EST
New It's around $2.35/gal for regular, $2.70/gal diesel here.
The peak I saw was about $3.50/gal for regular, so it's come down off the peak, but is more slowly dropping now.

One guy's personal history of gas purchase prices is [link|http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.html|here]. It covers 1979 - present.

IV writes:
So anybody (like BeeP) who stubbornly insists that the "market will adjust" is either lying, or ignoring the increasingly obvious fact that the "market" is being manipulated.


There may be some manipulation on the part of the oil and gasoline companies, but there doesn't have to be for the prices to rise quickly and fall relatively slowly. Prices are, in part, based on expected replacement costs. So they have to have some forward-looking component (and not just be based on the spot price).

Cheers,
Scott.
New My heart bleeds
I'm currently paying around 90p a litre, depending on where I fill up.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New $5.92/gallon. Not bad. :-/
New YMMV
jb4
"Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'."
&mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
New My gas prices are down somewhat
From about $3.00 to $2.40.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New I'm paying $1.99, significantly lower than post Katrina.
And what you are seeing, my friend, is that refining costs in the Katrina affected regions are still somewhat higher as the major refineries struggle to get all their capacity back. The difference between barrel price of oil and barrel price of gasoline (or heating oil or jet fuel) is call the "crack spread"...and in the immediate aftermath of Katrina was nearly as high as 50$ a bbl for jet fuel. So while you saw $70 oil, the airlines saw $125bbl jet fuel pricing...where the normal markup would be in the 4-10 range (seasonal).
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New OK, so riddle me this, Batman...
Since Katrina, the refining capability has improved, right? I mean, we've recovered a lot (but not all) our refining capability. So the price of gasoline (the refined distillate of that $70/bbl oil) would, if the market is not being diddled, come down, as the supply of said distillate is up. Therefore, for a constant cost of the raw material, the price of gasoline should be dropping as the ability to refine it increases. Basic supply-and-demand market economics. Furthermore, as the cost of the raw material decreases, and the capability (and fixed cost) to refine said raw material remains constant, the cost of the refiend product should continue to decrease, again if the market is not being diddled.

So here we are, with increased manufacturing capability (with reference to Katrina-aftermath levels), and a roughly 12% drop in the cost of the raw materials that go into that manufacturing process, roughly constant demand...and increasing prices for the manufactured product.

Things that make you (well, maybe not you, BeeP, but the rest of us) say, "Hmmmmm...".
jb4
"Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'."
&mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
New It also depends
on where you are, since the US has "allowable" grades and blends that are specific to regions..and each is going to rely on the capacity of the particular refineries.

In addition, it will take time for the reduction to work its way through the system.

Expecting the price at the pump to follow the price of oil precisely is simply showing that you don't completely understand how that gas gets to the pump in the first place.

What you are ignoring...the companies raised their prices immediately. That was the robbery. They were selling gas that had already been through the system and selling it at prices that reflected what the current cost would be. What do you get? Windfall.

And, in case you missed my first post, my price at the pump is down SIGNIFICANTLY from the Katrina spike (and hey, I only get full serve in NJ) . So maybe yours didn't, and that would mean you are likely being fed from the pipeline that comes from the effected refineries...and your buddies aren't cutting back on their guzzle at the pumps.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Prices jumped up this past weekend for me
As of Friday morning, regular unleaded was $2.09 at a grocery store's pumps. (I'm still amazed how a grocery store generally sells gas at the cheapest price here in Texas. Of course, I still can't get over how gas prices in Austin are generally 10 cents or more lower than in Houston, the gas capital of the country).

By Friday night the price went to $2.15. On Sunday it went to $2.18.

This morning the same grocery store has regular unleaded for $2.27.

[edit: fixed typo]
lincoln

"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow


Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.


I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States.


[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
Expand Edited by lincoln March 7, 2006, 11:15:29 AM EST
New Re: Remember 1973-1974?
The "He's one of us" things confuses me. Is it all just spin by Rove, et al.? Is the political "Conservative Christian" movement that powerful? Or is it just that the electorate was sufficiently evenly divided that he managed to squeak through a couple of times? He's not Conservative in the traditional sense.

Starting from the top, the "He's one of us" thing was a major selling point in his campaign. And in that regards he does play well against the like of Kerry and other career politicians, in that he seems like a fairly regular guy.

What I always wanted to know is why people where so quick to vote for somebody like that? Bush comes across as a slacker / looser who has a life goal of managing a fast food place and can barely handle his assistant manager posistion.

It is, of course, nothing but a campaign selling point. In reality Bush is the rich slacker who hangs around the cigar bar, has a VP of nothing posistion that pays him well but he doesn't care because his trust fund is even bigger, thinks his talent and skill have put him where he is and things poor people could get ahead like he has if they just worked harder.

The Christian Conservative movement is very powerful in the US right now, because of two things. First, both Christians and conservatives have more impact on elections then their numbers would suggest because they tend to vote in higher percentage then the population as a whole.

But the real reason for their current power is that they have managed to make it the "Christian American" movement in the minds of many people. To the point where many people who agree more with the Democrats on specific posistions vote Republican because they think it is the Christian thing to do.

The electors in the US are highly divided as partisanship has been on the rise for some time. This has changed the dynamic for elections, as trying to run to the middle to get moderates doesn't work as well as it used to. Bush has built his success on getting his party base secured*. The Democrats have not done a good job of adjusting to this change well.

As for being a traditional conservative, you are right he isn't. In fact if you pay attention to American politics, the traditional conservatives are fed up and are starting to jump ship. Some because of a 'rats on a sinking ship' mentality but also because they have begun to see through his claims of being a conservative.

In his first term in office they where so caught up in the 9/11 and war hysteria that they overlooked his other excesses. But this time around it has sunk in that the war in Iraq has been a failure, and more over, an expensive failure and that is something traditional conservatives hate. Plus, while Bush's policy of cutting social government expenses appeals to them, but they have started to notice that he is cutting government income even faster and total expenses is still going up because of military spending.

Jay

* Plus the Republicans have been doing some questionable stuff designed to interfere with voting by the other party but that isn't an acceptable topic for discussion in the US.
New Vast oversimplification
and quite possible just plain wrong

But the real reason for their current power is that they have managed to make it the "Christian American" movement in the minds of many people. To the point where many people who agree more with the Democrats on specific posistions vote Republican because they think it is the Christian thing to do.


At the core of the "family values" debate, the vast majority of Americans have judeo-christian mindsets. So, when the dems talk about "allowing gay marriage", this is immediately rejected by this part of the populace. BUT, if you were to change the term marriage and discuss equal benefits for same sex couples...you would get further. BUT, the dems allowed and flaunted the "gay marriage" thing...with the folks in San Fran making the news and allowing their "fringe" to drive this voting block away.

Another part of this was the hammering in the debate of the VPs daughter. It was obviously a staged attack. It offended this block's sensibilities. Not necessarily by bringing out some "kneejerk homophobic response"..but for attacking a mans family to try and gain position.

And then there's Mike Moore. Giving him a promiment position in the party workings does nothing to swing opinion of those hoping the dems are closer to center.

They aren't looking to vote for anyone because its "the christian thing to do"...their looking to place votes with a party that they think more representative of their ethic...and the dems have blown this lately because of their allowance of the fringe to make such a spectacle of themselves.

The Repo side has their lunatic fringe too...but you don't see the head of the southern baptists sitting next to George Sr. at the convention (as an example)



If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Quite right about that.
You don't see the head of the southern baptists sitting next to George Sr. at the convention


Yeah, they just get invited to the white house to make decisions behind closed doors...
When somebody asks you to trade your freedoms for security, it isn't your security they're talking about.
New Aside from the fact...
...that you should back these things up when you throw them out there (nudge)...the point is about appearances, as that is generally what you are dealing with during elections.

The dems have failed MASSIVELY in controlling what has been done in their name during the past 2 cycles.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New From my point of view
Bush, Cheney et al are the Republican lunatic fringe.

Yes, I know that they aren't really. But from my point of view they are more extreme than Michael Moore is.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Bull....
I'll take them one at a time...

So, when the dems talk about "allowing gay marriage", this is immediately rejected by this part of the populace. BUT, if you were to change the term marriage and discuss equal benefits for same sex couples...you would get further. BUT, the dems allowed and flaunted the "gay marriage" thing...with the folks in San Fran making the news and allowing their "fringe" to drive this voting block away.


First off, dems were NOT pushing gay marriage. A small group was pushing for "gay marriage" through the court system in state courts.

However, that did not prevent Republicans and the fair right wing from claiming that it was being pushed by the left.

Another part of this was the hammering in the debate of the VPs daughter. It was obviously a staged attack. It offended this block's sensibilities. Not necessarily by bringing out some "kneejerk homophobic response"..but for attacking a mans family to try and gain position.


I'll grant you this one. She's a fair target since she is in politics (Cheney's campaign manager), but it was a stupid approach and stupid execution. Whomever was the advisor on that needs to be fired.

And then there's Mike Moore. Giving him a promiment position in the party workings does nothing to swing opinion of those hoping the dems are closer to center.


Sigh. Michael Moore represents the Democratic party as much as Limbaugh represent the Republican party (and the Liberatians).

They aren't looking to vote for anyone because its "the christian thing to do"...their looking to place votes with a party that they think more representative of their ethic...and the dems have blown this lately because of their allowance of the fringe to make such a spectacle of themselves.


Actually, what they've allowed to do is for the Republicans to define their values and agenda and are suprised when they come up looking so bad in the eyes of the media and the public.

The Repo side has their lunatic fringe too...but you don't see the head of the southern baptists sitting next to George Sr. at the convention (as an example)


No, you see Kenny-boy, Scooter Libby, Perle, Delay, Duke Cunningham, and Abramoff all enjoying a night at the Whitehouse.

The left hasn't defined their message....and they certainly aren't attacking like they should.
(Although, they are slowly learning to improve.)
New Sigh
And then there's Mike Moore. Giving him a promiment position in the party workings does nothing to swing opinion of those hoping the dems are closer to center.



Sigh. Michael Moore represents the Democratic party as much as Limbaugh represent the Republican party (and the Liberatians).
So why in the hell was he seated next to a former President in a position of prominence at the Convention? I didn't see Rush sitting next to GB Sr, did I?

And on the rest...who's responsibility is it to define the message? The Dems have let the message be defined for them. Is it the Republican's fault for being better at politics than the Democrats or is it a Democrat failure. I personally think the Dems are failing. They cannot define their agenda well enough to withstand a campaign. Hell, their leader couldn't define half of his own agenda and had to refer people to a website.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Well, on one issue we agree....
So why in the hell was he seated next to a former President in a position of prominence at the Convention? I didn't see Rush sitting next to GB Sr, did I?


I'm sorry, I don't remember Michael Moore interviewing Clinton or Gore in any of his movies.

(Or don't you remember Rush interviewing Cheney on his show?)

And on the rest...who's responsibility is it to define the message? The Dems have let the message be defined for them.


I agree with you that Democrats have failed to define their message. (Although I think Dean is going to change that).
New You keep missing the point
So why in the hell was he seated next to a former President in a position of prominence at the Convention? I didn't see Rush sitting next to GB Sr, did I?



I'm sorry, I don't remember Michael Moore interviewing Clinton or Gore in any of his movies.

(Or don't you remember Rush interviewing Cheney on his show?)


Theres a difference that you seem to want to sweep under. If Moore is so damned removed from the agenda, why was he afforded the position of sitting in the leadership box next to a former President?

Having Rush interview a vp candidate on his radio show is hardly affording him some position of prominence. Sitting him at the convention where you damned well know all the cameras will be focused IS promotion. So, the Dems promoted Moore's agenda...the Reps used Rush for his strength, which is audience reach...they didn't, however, invite him to the convention and sit him next to daddy (tacitly endorsing all his views).

How hard is that to understand that it was a MAJOR campaign error?
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Again, we disagree on this point...
Having Rush interview a vp candidate on his radio show is hardly affording him some position of prominence.


Sorry, total disagreement.

Cheney has been in hiding since Bush was elected. I think he's giving something like 2 interviews, total. And one is to Rush? And they're NOT promoting Rush's agenda?

<mocking Rush's voice> Folks...we have he an administration that has claimed to conservaties...and you know I know conservatives. Now, while they've been claiming to be conservatives and they've been doing a good job mostly and all. But..but..but <banging on the desk> there's something I just don't get folks.

First they say they're against an increase in government...but they've increased it larger than any Democrat in history. In history. Then there's this Dubai Port deal.

Now I know you people have been with me on this one. And I was very much against it and all. But now I've got the Vice President of the US to help explain to me why this deal is so needed (and improve my rating during sweeps).</mocking Rush's voice>

<shrug>

How hard is that to understand that it was a MAJOR campaign error?


Campaign error? No argument, I wouldn't have put him on the podium.

But I'm not claiming that he speaks for the Democratic Party.
(I'm not even claiming that Rush speaks for the Republican Party...gasp!)
New The veep speaks quite a bit
Watch some C-span. Its not all to CNN's Larry King so sometimes it may be hard to follow. No, he's not a blabbermouth and yes he could appear more on Face the Nation..but having a campaign appearance on Rush isn't that big a deal. Unless you think that the Pres candidates appearing on Letterman and Leno makes the same type of statement.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Reminds me of a commentary by Glenn Greenwald
[link|http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/02/do-bush-followers-have-political.html|Glenn Greenwald] commentary (via Dan Gillmor's blog). It's long and a little strident (but apparently sincerely so). It covers the morphing of "liberal" and "conservative" in the time of GWB very well:

[...]

What it takes to make someone a "conservative" in Bozell's eyes is the same as what is required in the eyes of all Bush followers -- a willingness to support Bush's actions because they are the actions of George Bush.

We see the [link|http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/02/11.html#a7117|same thing happening] to hard-core conservative Bob Barr due to his criticism of Bush's violations of FISA . Similarly, the minute a Senator with years of conservatism behind them deviates from a Bush decree on a single issue, they are no longer "conservative." George Voinovich [link|http://www.military.com/Opinions/0,,FreedomAlliance_042105,00.html|became a "liberal"] the minute he refused to support John Bolton\ufffds nomination; John Sununu is now "liberal" because he did not favor immediate renewal of every single provision of the Patriot Act which Bush demanded, and Senators like Chuck Hagel and John McCain long ago gave up any "conservative" status because of their insistence on forming opinions that occasionally deviate from the decrees from the White House.

People who self-identify as "conservatives" and have always been considered to be conservatives become liberal heathens the moment they dissent, even on the most non-ideological grounds, from a Bush decree. That\ufffds because "conservatism" is now a term used to describe personal loyalty to the leader (just as "liberal" is used to describe disloyalty to that leader), and no longer refers to a set of beliefs about government.

That "conservatism" has come to mean "loyalty to George Bush" is particularly ironic given how truly un-conservative the Administration is. It is not only the obvious (though significant) [link|http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-31-03.html|explosion] of [link|http://www.aei.org/publications/filter.all,pubID.23352/pub_detail.asp|deficit spending] under this Administration \ufffd and that explosion has occurred far beyond military or 9/11-related spending and extends into almost all arenas of domestic programs as well. Far beyond that is the fact that the core, defining attributes of political conservatism could not be any more foreign to the world view of the Bush follower.

As much as any policy prescriptions, conservatism has always been based, more than anything else, on a fundamental distrust of the power of the federal government and a corresponding belief that that power ought to be as restrained as possible, particularly when it comes to its application by the Government to American citizens. It was that deeply rooted distrust that led to conservatives\ufffd vigorous advocacy of states\ufffd rights over centralized power in the federal government, accompanied by demands that the intrusion of the Federal Government in the lives of American citizens be minimized.

Is there anything more antithetical to that ethos than the rabid, power-hungry appetites of Bush followers? There is not an iota of distrust of the Federal Government among them. Quite the contrary. Whereas distrust of the government was quite recently a hallmark of conservatism, expressing distrust of George Bush and the expansive governmental powers he is pursuing subjects one to accusations of being a leftist, subversive loon.

Indeed, as many Bush followers [link|http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/01/bush-followers-are-not-conservatives.html|themselves admit], the central belief of the Bush follower's "conservatism" is no longer one that ascribes to a limited federal government -- but is precisely that there ought to be no limits on the powers claimed by Bush precisely because we trust him, and we trust in him absolutely. He wants to protect us and do good. He is not our enemy but our protector. And there is no reason to entertain suspicions or distrust of him or his motives because he is Good.

We need no oversight of the Federal Government\ufffds eavesdropping powers because we trust Bush to eavesdrop in secret for the Good. We need no judicial review of Bush\ufffds decrees regarding who is an "enemy combatant" and who can be detained indefinitely with no due process because we trust Bush to know who is bad and who deserves this. We need no restraints from Congress on Bush\ufffds ability to exercise war powers, even against American citizens on U.S. soil, because we trust Bush to exercise these powers for our own good.

The blind faith placed in the Federal Government, and particularly in our Commander-in-Chief, by the contemporary "conservative" is the very opposite of all that which conservatism has stood for for the last four decades. The anti-government ethos espoused by Barry Goldwater and even Ronald Reagan is wholly unrecognizable in Bush followers, who \ufffd at least thus far \ufffd have discovered no limits on the powers that ought to be vested in George Bush to enable him to do good on behalf of all of us.

[...]

UPDATE: For a glimpse of how actual conservatives quite recently used to think, one should read [link|http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a27337612f5.htm|this article] at FreeRepublic.com, which decries the dangerous loss of liberty and privacy as a result of the Clinton Administration's use of a "secret court" (something called the "FISA court") which actually enables the Federal Government to eavesdrop on American citizens! Worse -- much worse -- the judicial approval which the Government (used to) obtain for this eavesdropping is in secret, so we don't even know who is being eavesdropped on! How can we possibly trust the Government not to abuse this power if they can obtain warrants in secret?

Conservatives used to consider things like this to be quite disturbing and bad -- and the eavesdropping then was at least with judicial oversight. Now, George Bush is in office, and all of the distrust we used to have of the Federal Government exercising these powers has evaporated, because we trust in George Bush to do what is best for us. He should not just have those powers, but many more, and he should exercise all of them in secret, too, with no "interference" from the courts or Congress.

That is why I say that whatever else these Bush followers are, they are not conservative. (h/t [link|http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/11/233148/167|Stand Strong] and [link|http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/02/do-bush-followers-have-political.html#c113975024442944523|aarrgghh]).


Cheers,
Scott.
New That FreeRepublic link is great
How have the Democrats not picked up on this? Not this article in particular, but the whole issue it describes. What they should do: Find Republicans who had anything to say about FISA under Clinton. Write up choice quotes on posterboards and keep them handy in the House. Get them to defend Bush's wiretapping. Put the quotes up on easels and thank them for supporting your plan to shut down the program.
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Which is to say, yet again -
Indeed , little-Jesus is no epithet, among those now Washed in the Blood of George II.

That is an accurate depiction of todays's theoiconology ... and only language murder can sustain the continuing use of any tag beginning Conserva-, as these troglodytes concentrate even more Wealth at the top; squander.. On Credit! perhaps more than a next generation's -now assured- daily drudgery as,

50-hour-week drones at pizza delivery wages
sans reform of the Medical (or Insurance) Industries) with that pizza uniform,
and abide the litany of declining services, infrastructure, cuth and .. intelligence.




Californians Arise !!!
Secede . . .


Remove our salvageable economy from this 100% mort-gaged floating crap game
- from this suppurating garbage scow and its crew of sanctimonius twits, in their race to the bottom.


tpoy


(or at least, do fucking Something, you bleating consuming sheep!)
Expand Edited by Ashton March 5, 2006, 11:46:59 PM EST
New Given that definition of "liberal"...
...we should sweep the next election that is framed fully on any so-called liberal/conservative schism!

Bring it on!




34% and falling....
jb4
"Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'."
&mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Expand Edited by jb4 March 6, 2006, 10:18:12 AM EST
New Brilliant article
A brilliant article, one that cuts right to the core of what is wrong with much of the right wing in the US now.

The only thing I would add is that this really didn't start with Bush, it started with Clinton. There has always been an undercurrent of personal dislike between the parties, that is natural. But while Bill was in office the entire right coalesced around it. No longer did the conservatives and right wing oppose the president because they disagreed with his politcs, they opposed the president because the hated him personally.

When a Republican was elected this reversed, and they embraced him on personal level. No longer was being Republican, conservative or even right wing defined by political posistion, it was defined by support for the president.

Why this happened is a more complex issue, there are a lot of things that fed into this. Off the top of my head I can see Bill's carefully triangulated politics leaving little for the right to object to politically, the growing synergy between the conservatives and the religious right, Bill's personal popularity leading to frustration on the right, the money that was feed into the right for the purpose of bringing Clinton down rather then building up the right, the growing seperation between Republicans on Congress and the right wing politcal movements, and a rise in press based on sparking controvery rather then informing anybody.

Jay
     Video of Bush briefing before Katrina hit. - (Another Scott) - (37)
         More Lies, More Videotape - (jb4) - (1)
             Not Midterms, Finals. -NT - (jbrabeck)
         Heard on NPR today - (drewk)
         As more evidence of innate dumbth trickles in - it endears - (Ashton) - (33)
             Remember 1973-1974? - (Another Scott) - (32)
                 I still say the model has changed. - (Simon_Jester) - (5)
                     It's possible. Depends on the Repub candidate though. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                         No senator is ever in a "good position" for that race. -NT - (admin)
                     Another way of saying - (hnick) - (2)
                         That IS sad - (jb4) - (1)
                             Not too young. - (hnick)
                 One small point of clarification: - (jb4) - (9)
                     It's around $2.35/gal for regular, $2.70/gal diesel here. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                         My heart bleeds - (pwhysall) - (2)
                             $5.92/gallon. Not bad. :-/ -NT - (Another Scott)
                             YMMV -NT - (jb4)
                     My gas prices are down somewhat - (ben_tilly)
                     I'm paying $1.99, significantly lower than post Katrina. - (bepatient) - (3)
                         OK, so riddle me this, Batman... - (jb4) - (1)
                             It also depends - (bepatient)
                         Prices jumped up this past weekend for me - (lincoln)
                 Re: Remember 1973-1974? - (JayMehaffey) - (15)
                     Vast oversimplification - (bepatient) - (9)
                         Quite right about that. - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                             Aside from the fact... - (bepatient)
                         From my point of view - (ben_tilly)
                         Bull.... - (Simon_Jester) - (5)
                             Sigh - (bepatient) - (4)
                                 Well, on one issue we agree.... - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
                                     You keep missing the point - (bepatient) - (2)
                                         Again, we disagree on this point... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                                             The veep speaks quite a bit - (bepatient)
                     Reminds me of a commentary by Glenn Greenwald - (Another Scott) - (4)
                         That FreeRepublic link is great - (drewk)
                         Which is to say, yet again - - (Ashton)
                         Given that definition of "liberal"... - (jb4)
                         Brilliant article - (JayMehaffey)

Now, with built-in MIDI ports!
119 ms