Very well stated.

Post #245,812 by jbrabeck 2/22/06 5:13:37 PM Reply	Very well stated. A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #245,905 by jb4 2/23/06 10:20:55 AM Reply	Agreed...Very well stated. However... ...Peter missed the opportunity to show umbrage (or, at least, penumbrage) at the assertion that he, Peter, were anything other than a law-abiding citizen...who thought the ID cards were a load of bollocks. He shouldhave at least solicited an apology from His Royal Arrogance, MPee. jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #245,908 by drewk 2/23/06 10:31:34 AM Reply	"Transparent Society" ... philosophical question Suppose the ID card scheme, or really any possible identity verification scheme, could really work perfectly: Absolute certainty that a person is who they say they are; Complete elimination of identity theft and all crimes based on forged identity credentials. But this comes with the (unintended?) side-effect that everyone's movements can be tracked at all times. Is this: Good? Bad? Inevitable? Preventable? I haven't read [link\|http://www.davidbrin.com/tschp1.html\|The Transparent Society] yet. But I believe one of the tenets is that it has to be two-way: If someone can track me, I should know they're tracking me. That's one control we're already short on IMO. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #245,916 by inthane-chan 2/23/06 11:19:48 AM Reply	Exactly what he says. One of the main points of "The Transparent Society" is that everybody DOES watch everybody else - and it is completely legal. As far as telling if somebody is watching you; well, in such a society, you just assume everybody is. When somebody asks you to trade your freedoms for security, it isn't your* security they're talking about.*
Post #245,920 by drewk 2/23/06 11:22:49 AM Reply	To me, that's not the same It's one thing to know someone could be watching me. It's quite different to know they are watching. It's the whole problem with the DHS/FBI/etc wanting to get my library records without telling me. If you're going to be investigating me, I should know I'm being investigated. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #245,931 by inthane-chan 2/23/06 11:59:04 AM Reply	Who watches the watchmen? Any organized government is going to draw people who watch them right back - those people might use their time to notify those under watch that they are being watched. There's a lot fewer people that are professionally paid to watch others than there are people out there with spare time on their hands. Given the level of distrust of our government, I can imagine a lot of people taking it in their own hands to be watching the watchmen right back... Even going so far as to arrange groups that take rotating shifts and provide instant notifications. When somebody asks you to trade your freedoms for security, it isn't your* security they're talking about.*

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