Understood. You present a good case. But...

Post #239,433 by Another Scott 12/25/05 11:43:56 PM Reply	Understood. You present a good case. But... There are lots of hazardous substances that can cause lots of damage to lots of people. Dirty bombs are scarier, but probably wouldn't cause more real-life damage than a chemical attack (c.f. the Tokyo subway [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway\|attack]). How can I say such a thing? Well, consider [link\|http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/dirty-bomb.cfm\|this] article by the CDI; though as a counterpoint one should also consider [link\|http://www.fas.org/faspir/2002/v55n2/dirtybomb.htm\|this] one by the FAS. My concern isn't the snooping so much - I agree that non-invasive searches are better for sweeping large areas than, say, mandatory door-to-door searches. My concern is that no warrant was requested. At some point, IMO, if you're on my land then you should need my permission to conduct sampling of my property. If you don't have my permission, then you should be forced to demonstrate to a judge that you need to be legally permitted to do the sampling. I worry about the precedent this sets. If this is permitted, why not have the FBI drive up and down our streets with supercomputers and \ufffdbersensitive microphones and pentabyte disk-arrays, recording every sound for subsequent analysis and indefinite storage. Well, it's out there in public, so it's fair game - right? It looks like Bobby Jones down the street is a member of the NRA and likes to play FPS games - our software profiling indicates he might be training to be an extremist. Maybe we should have a record of what he does at home for the next 10 years - just in case... :-( I'm sorry - I don't buy it. Radioactive materials don't grow on trees. Sources of large enough quantities of radioactive materials to be useful in a bomb are well know and are (or should be!) carefully controlled. (E.g Al-qaeda isn't going to go to Home Depot and buy 100,000 smoke alarms to make their bomb.) The transportation infrastructure could be monitored to see if radioactive materials are moving through it. Etc. Obviously, contacts with known extremists and terrorist groups should be carefully monitored (within the law). If law enforcement has some probable cause, or some legitimate reason to investigate a building or an area, then let them get a warrant. If they want a "clean baseline" to be able to quickly spot changes in an area, then that may be fine too. But unless there was more reason to investigate the mosques and homes of Muslims than was presented in the USN&WR report (and I didn't notice much of any), then they should have been forced to get a warrant to do the sampling on private property. As you point out, recent court decisions may have reduced the need for law enforcement to get such warrants. If so, I think that's a bad trend. Bottom line: A court should act as a civil protection to prevent directed fishing expeditions that don't meet a reasonable standard of necessity or probable cause. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #239,437 by boxley 12/25/05 11:59:52 PM Reply	you are seriously confused look at your local zoning and zoning inspector laws, in Anchorage Alaska a zoning inspector can enter your fenced yard to inspect for zoning violations, one of the primary violations is hazmat storage. In most municipalities a fire, electrical, plumbing inspector, utility workers can go onto your land and visually inspect items such a gas line, illegal electrical hookups and suspicious containers. Even as far back as 1973 I worked as a gas leak inspector accross the South. It involved sensing equipment that would check for leaking gas parts. I would walk legally into your yard up to the meter and demand entry in case I needed to trace inside, usually with a large cop standing next to me. City State and Federal law supported same. Now your local zonong might not mention specifically fuckwits building a dirty bomb, but any laws like "storage of unlicenced vehicles not allowed" offers legal entry to your property for zoning inspectors who can carry rad meters while they are there and do it legally. Like Peter earlier said, a lot of legal crap goes on that I hate, zoning enforcement being one of them, but it is a legal practice. Also, a mosque parking lot is a public place allowing what is called a "licensee" someone who has no real business there but may tootle around doing their own business, That is settled law.Legal? Absolutely, needful? as needful as it is to check the expiration date of the plates on my van backed against the garage door. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #239,438 by Another Scott 12/26/05 12:45:07 AM Reply	Fair enough. Thanks.
Post #239,441 by Simon_Jester 12/26/05 10:23:09 AM Reply	Box is right... between easements and inspections for public safety; there's nothing wrong with what the Feds have done. The problem is their basic assumption. The Feds are concentrating on nuclear materials (geiger counters and the like). A fast review of the attacks on the US do NOT show nuclear materials being used (perhaps because the Feds have done a good job). From Oklahoma to 9/11, basic everyday materials can do a lot more damage than most people realize.
Post #239,463 by Ashton 12/26/05 6:39:37 PM Reply	Let's not get lost in triage of 'threats' here - As a long-time $supporter of CDI (have mentioned visiting them in DC) - I find their material among the most thoughtful, decently edited and - generally 'wise' .. around. Seeing their operation 'live' - priceless. I regret that their regular half-hours, years ago even on local bucolic PBS station .. have declined in recent years. Not enough $$, or mass Interest, I expect. Not enough car chases. :-/ That said, the CDI report is entirely logical and in accord with my experience (which helps me, if not you.) And BTW, a "20-25% increase over background" - via -not cosmic rays- but mobile particulate matter may Not be so easily lumped-together as a simple "%increase". This especially re long-term consequences, genetic and other. Another thread, that.. and not a simple one. And yes, the Psychological aspects (especially in primitive, superstitious, uninformed cultures like ours) - may indeed trump the physical, $$$ aspects of such an Event. As pointed out by CDI - Nightmarish though it may be, the dirty bomb scenario is thus one that must be prepared for, albeit one wherein the psychological dangers appear greater than the physical. That al Qaeda appears to have made more inroads into the production of such a device than was previously believed to be the case heightens such dangers even further. After all, look how effective have been the Rove/G\ufffdbbels propaganda barrages: Words-alone! mere fear-mongering sans Substance. THAT is "where we live"... Point: not a huge investment is needed, to continue regular background checks. Nor are the perps flawless in their strategy, tactics execution - simply because They Were, on that one day. A bonus (whatever the actual physiological risk of some actual planned event) -- is, a cheap sensor, whose warning might well lead to a rarity: actually catching some sickos. You Watch before you Pounce. We can afford to do this. All the other stuff will always be debatable, legitimate arguments re priorities, triage shall occur, etc. Few of these options shall achieve consensus -- I think that this one should, if there's a single Authority Figure left with a sense of Scale and Relativity\ufffd (A large IF, sadly.) (IMO, consequences of worldwide general-ignorance re isotopes and their consequences, just may prove as instrumental in the replacement of our ditzy species -??- as any of the too-numerous other catalysts on our various lists. Unfortunately, there can be no simple, compelling 'explanation for the masses' of the manifold consequences of our proliferation of these substances.) One can only watch, shake head - and make best use of the time, by Living. Worrying about lemming-like behaviour in one's species can only grow hairy warts on neurons; possibly lead to burkha purchases in the febrile? or the championing of Windoze. :-) moi

Welcome to IWETHEY!