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Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Update: Scruitinzier back online - all known problems fixed.
If you find any, please let me know.

I'll be setting up a scheduled process that uses this to continuously monitor my employer's website and graph trends in error counts/types pretty soon and I really need it to be solid.

And a pox on developers using unescaped < and > in web pages! That part was really hard to get right.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Crash (?) on W3C.org's page.
MessageNotUnderstood: UndefinedObject>>-


[link|http://www.w3c.org|http://www.w3c.org]

:-(

Is it an XML versus HTML issue? Either way, I hope it's an easy fix.

Luck!

Cheers,
Scott.
New I get that the URLs I've tried too
Have fun,
Carl Forde
New It's crashing on my home page, too.
That's [link|http://yceran.org/|http://yceran.org/]

Works on my bookmark page, though [link|http://yceran.org/bookmarks/|http://yceran.org/bookmarks/]

Wade.
"Insert crowbar. Apply force."
New Doh! I'm an idiot! Fixed!
I had no code to handle processing directives - IOW it was befuddled by

<?xml version="1.0"....?>

How embarrassing!

Fixed!

Please resume your regular testing. Thanks!



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Three questions
1. Any possibility of a version that allows one to pass a cookie along with the URL?

2. Any possibility of either a version we can stick behind a firewall, or equivalently a version that we can put the raw HTML inside rather than relying on you hitting a page?

3. Yes, I know that it is invalid to put hidden form fields between a table and a tr tag. However I've done it before as a workaround for the fact that IE wants to create whitespace for hidden form fields. Does anyone know of a valid workaround for that problem?

Thanks,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New What is your name? What is your quest? What...
... if you use CSS to make the margin and padding 0 for a class called "hiddenField"?
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New I'll definitely try the CSS trick
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Re: Three questions
1) What would the cookie be for? Storing your default url so you can bypass the welcome form?

2) At some point I hope to have a version for use behind a firewall. After all - it runs on anything. I also can see a lot of value added features WRT continuous quality monitoring, pre-deployment verification, and developer testing tools.

3) See Scott's reply - CSS is often the right way to go.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New The cookie is a login cookie
Often pages look very different if you're logged in.

However having somewhere to upload HTML would be more flexible.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Yes, that is coming
And of course I've got to hurry up and add that paypal link. :-)



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Dec. 12, 2005, 01:10:31 PM EST
New What I've been contemplating...
...is an HTML validator that works directly as a Firefox extension.
New Ooooohhhh ... yeah, do that
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New ++GREAT
Maybe Todd could do one for FireFox as well.

In anycase, a vaildator that does the stuff ... be awesome.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New That would be cool
but not what I am currently aiming for.

I'm interested in helping people who roll lots of content on a regular basis keep tabs on trends in their quality level. That implies something that can be server side, automated, and is bloody easy to setup and deploy.

There are a number of desktop based solutions already, but they don't lend themselves to this kind of thing.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Been using HTMLValidator for a while
Mostly too busy at the moment to do much about it. But it would be nice to convert a validator to run within Firefox. Looked at the W3C validator at one time, and it's written in C - not something that's easily translatable.

Problem I have with most of the validators is two fold. First, the external validators are hard to use in web applications (kind of a spinoff on Ben's suggestion about cookies, though I run a local web server off my box for development). You basically have to save off the page as an html file, put it in a publicly accessible location and then run the validation (I'll second Ben's suggestion of cut and paste HTML into a textarea for validation).

Second problem I have is that the validation doesn't usually look at the the DOM after the javascript cranks through. What I'd like is to verify the DOM at any particular point in time, not just at start up. I've got a bit of dynamic client side stuff happening that is invisible to all the validators that I've used.

Anyhow, Scrutinizer looks good. I assume you've written it in Smalltalk since it refers to Seaside?
New Could do a little extension
that posts the page's source code to a url. Firefox also has "view rendered source" which, if you can hook that, would give you the post-javascript html.

I did write it in Smalltalk - its the only way to get this much done by yourself. It also makes it dead easy to install (one squeak vm, one image, one changes file) and it runs on just about anything. It is also possible to push changes from my dev image on my laptop to the deployed one without taking the app down.

I have many issues with the w3c validator. Installation is fiddly and you have to have all latest C libs on your system (its actually written in Perl with dependencies on a C SGML library which depends on the latest glibc....). The output of the thing breaks my browser when using it on my employer's home page. IOW, you see the big list of errors, click it to go to place in source code and occasionally the browser loses its mind and crashes. I couldn't reliably find errors with it. Additionally, it doesn't classify errors by severity - rather it lists them in the order in which it finds them and I think it complains too much about stuff that isn't that important - like escaping ampersands in urls in href attributes. Nobody bothers to do that and the browsers are more than OK with it.

Structural errors, OTOH, can result in totally broken pages and I really want to fix those.

Other stuff that nothing really catches that well is script syntax errors - we have deployed stuff with minor syntax errors that resulted in very visible error dialogs o some browsers. Something needs to check those.

I appreciate your feedback.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Managed to blow it up
I was trying to look at one of our pages, which I copied to [link|http://hqdev.teamtscsalessolution.com/perry/temp.htm|http://hqdev.teamtsc...om/perry/temp.htm] to make it available and generated an error.

MessageNotUnderstood: UndefinedObject>>-

HtmlPNode(HtmlDOMNode)>>suffix
[] in WPPageVisualizer>>renderNode:on: {[ea children size > 0 ifTrue: [html anchor class: ea tag; name: ea pr...]}
BlockContext>>renderOn:
WADivTag(WATagBrush)>>within:
[] in WADivTag(WATagBrush)>>with: {[self within: aBlock]}
BlockContext>>renderOn:
WARenderCanvas(WACanvas)>>nest:
WADivTag(WABrush)>>with:
WADivTag(WATagBrush)>>with:
WPPageVisualizer>>renderNode:on:
[] in WPPageVisualizer>>renderNode:on: {[:c | self renderNode: c on: html]}
Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do:
[] in WPPageVisualizer>>renderNode:on: {[ea children do: [:c | self renderNode: c on: html]]}
BlockContext>>renderOn:
WADivTag(WATagBrush)>>within:
[] in WADivTag(WATagBrush)>>with: {[self within: aBlock]}
BlockContext>>renderOn:
WARenderCanvas(WACanvas)>>nest:
WADivTag(WABrush)>>with:
WADivTag(WATagBrush)>>with:


Note that the page in question is hidious. W3.org reports some 39 errors on the page. The older developers here operated under the beliefs that as long as it rendered in IE it was good and that closing tags are optional if the browser still renders the page OK.

Jay
New Oh cool!
Can you leave that page up over the weekend? I'll look at it and see if I can bulletproof against it.




"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New No problem
New Strange errors
Trying to validate [link|http://www.mikevitale.com/|http://www.mikevitale.com/] shows 3 errors. Two of them I take exception with right off the bat:

Unescaped Special Character Error155Character: '<' should be &lt;
Unescaped Special Character Error233Character: '>' should be &gt;

Those are, as best I can tell, the start and end tags of the following comment:

<!-- CSS Layout graciously donated by [link|http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/|http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/] -->

Why should those be escaped?

Edit: Fixed escaping of < and > in table up top.
-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Expand Edited by Yendor Dec. 16, 2005, 09:48:15 PM EST
New That's a bug
It occurs in commented style sheets. I hadn't realized that commenting style sheets was so common.

I'm planing to fix it this weekend - thanks for your feedback!



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Err...
Comments in stylesheets are of the /* C++ */ variety. Nothing to do with unescaped &lt; and &gt; tags...
-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New Ah Right
that's another bug I have to fix.

I've just fixed this one, seems html comments are a lot more [link|http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/SGMLComments.html|complicated] than most people (me among them) realize.

The spurious error was caused by Comment deriving from CDATA. It *is* a sort of opaque hunk of text that I don't care about, like CDATA, but there are different escaping rules so I eliminated the inheritance relationship and made them distinct.

Not yet deployed, probably won't deploy new version until late sunday. Still working on CSS1 validation (fairly easy), then CSS2 (some of which jumps the shark).

Thanks for your report.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
     Update: Scruitinzier back online - all known problems fixed. - (tuberculosis) - (23)
         Crash (?) on W3C.org's page. - (Another Scott) - (3)
             I get that the URLs I've tried too -NT - (cforde)
             It's crashing on my home page, too. - (static)
             Doh! I'm an idiot! Fixed! - (tuberculosis)
         Three questions - (ben_tilly) - (11)
             What is your name? What is your quest? What... - (admin) - (1)
                 I'll definitely try the CSS trick -NT - (ben_tilly)
             Re: Three questions - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                 The cookie is a login cookie - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                     Yes, that is coming - (tuberculosis)
             What I've been contemplating... - (ChrisR) - (5)
                 Ooooohhhh ... yeah, do that -NT - (drewk)
                 ++GREAT - (folkert)
                 That would be cool - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                     Been using HTMLValidator for a while - (ChrisR) - (1)
                         Could do a little extension - (tuberculosis)
         Managed to blow it up - (JayMehaffey) - (2)
             Oh cool! - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                 No problem -NT - (JayMehaffey)
         Strange errors - (Yendor) - (3)
             That's a bug - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                 Err... - (Yendor) - (1)
                     Ah Right - (tuberculosis)

Now, with built-in MIDI ports!
83 ms