IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Second hand smoke
I read that 38000 die from this every year
my guess is that that is approx. 38000 more than have
second hand smoke listed on their death certificates

when others attempt to calculate the deaths from nuclear fallout
from atmospheric testing or from chemicals placed in air and water
from pollution or how many Iraqi children died because of US/UN policies
after Desert Storm -- they are mocked

does anyone really die from second hand smoke and if so
how is it measured

A

and -- I thought cigarette ads were banned on TV but
Philip Morris has a big campaign to get you to go to their
web site where you can learn all about cigarettes
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
New I suspect common old Junk Stats, too
We are so addicted to simplistic slogans - any catchy one will get air time (if you pay for it.)

It's been a while since I inspected some of the data and assumptions extrapolated from it; maybe it's gotten better (or just been repeated often enough?) Given Herr Gauss, I saw no 'factor' for the very wide range of individual susceptibilities to various of the ingredients, and in a few debates which did address the technical: I recall 'defensiveness' at points I call crucial.

So I have the whole topic filed under, dubious.
(Er, then we could do DDT ;-)

New It's a difficult topic
On the one hand, it's hard to see how something (smoke) that definitely does kill people (smokers) can be harmless once it's exhaled (do the smokers' lungs filter out all the nasties, or something? They certainly don't filter out the stink - you MINGERS).

On the other, it's the kind of thing for which data collection is extraordinarily difficult.

Intuitively, I simply do not believe the bleatings of smokers who say that second-hand smoke is harmless. However, I have no science to back that up whatsoever.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New of course second hand smoke is bad for you
which is why you shouldnt smoke in enclosed areas with other people (especially kids) inhaling your smoke, make the fuckers buy their own ciggarettes. All fun aside if I light a choker in the car wih the kids inside, it affects their breathing almost immediately.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New There are those who claim it's harmless, albeit stinky.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New depends on your definition of harmless I suppose
at its mildest it is a bronchial irritant. So is hanging around gas islands, working in a textile factory, or driving a deisel school bus. All activities that place your oxygen extractors at risk.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Some links.
[link|http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/secondhandsmoke.html|NIH Link Collection].

In particular, [link|http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/pubs/etsfs.html|US EPA]:

Major Conclusions

Based on the weight of the available scientific evidence, EPA has concluded that the widespread exposure to environmental tobacco smoke in the U.S. presents a serious and substantial public health risk.

In adults:

ETS is a human lung carcinogen, responsible for approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths annually in U.S. nonsmokers. ETS has been classified as a Group A carcinogen under EPA's carcinogen assessment guidelines. This classification is reserved for those compounds or mixtures which have been shown to cause cancer in humans, based on studies in human populations.

In children:

ETS exposure increases the risk of lower respiratory tract infections such as bronchitis and pneumonia. EPA estimates that between 150,000 and 300,000 of these cases annually in infants and young children up to 18 months of age are attributable to exposure to ETS. Of these, between 7,500 and 15,000 will result in hospitalization.

ETS exposure increases the prevalence of fluid in the middle ear, a sign of chronic middle ear disease.

ETS exposure in children irritates the upper respiratory tract and is associated with a small but significant reduction in lung function.

ETS exposure increases the frequency of episodes and severity of symptoms in asthmatic children. The report estimates that 200,000 to 1,000,000 asthmatic children have their condition worsened by exposure to environmental tobacco smoke.

ETS exposure is a risk factor for new cases of asthma in children who have not previously displayed symptoms.


I haven't seen the 38,000 number you mentioned, so I don't know how that was arrived at.

All of these estimates depend on various complicated assumptions and extrapolations. There are error bars on all of the estimates that almost always get dropped when the numbers are reported in the popular press. (E.g., is that 3,000 +/- 50%?)

I'm sure that second-hand smoke has caused disease in many people, and that disease has resulted in death among some of those people. But those deaths are probably much more common in, say, a poverty-level household with small children in a small, cramped, poorly cared for house in the hills (where radon may be common as well) with parents who are chain smokers, than, say, among middle-class people who live in a smoke-free home who very occasionally get a whif of smoke when walking out of a building. In other words, I'm sure it depends on the level of exposure, the genetic predisposition, the overall heath, and the exposure to other hazardous agents.

Distilling it all down to one number doesn't tell a person whether second-hand smoke is more or less dangerous than [link|http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d001201-d001300/d001273/d001273.html|grilled meat, peanut butter, mustard, beer, bread crusts or breathing air in a mobile home].

HTH a bit.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: Some links.
[link|http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422|Lung Association takes 3000 and adds 35000 for heart disease]

The real question is why is this methodlogy accepted for tobacco and
never accepted for

fallout
pesticides
depleted uranium
gasoline

etc

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
New Because it's socially acceptable to demonize smokers
they are poor people for the most part after all, so it's OK, because we all know that poor people are poor due to their own shortcomings. Dissing those other things put rich people at risk, and we can't have that now can we.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New I was sorta with you until depleted uranium.
How's that a risk for rich people?


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New There's always the danger
that the poor people that survive depleted uranium shells falling on their farms, villagess and cities will turn around and KILL the rich people who called for those attacks...

Nah. Never happen. *chuckle*

[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New It's a risk to the profits of the rich people that make it.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Re: second hand smoke
It isn't just a matter of exhaled smoke, there is also the burning cigarette itself.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Peace,
Amy

"It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
New Highly dangerous to dimes in precarious situations!
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New ;-)

"It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
     Second hand smoke - (andread) - (14)
         I suspect common old Junk Stats, too - (Ashton)
         It's a difficult topic - (pwhysall) - (3)
             of course second hand smoke is bad for you - (boxley) - (2)
                 There are those who claim it's harmless, albeit stinky. -NT - (pwhysall) - (1)
                     depends on your definition of harmless I suppose - (boxley)
         Some links. - (Another Scott) - (5)
             Re: Some links. - (andread) - (4)
                 Because it's socially acceptable to demonize smokers - (jake123) - (3)
                     I was sorta with you until depleted uranium. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                         There's always the danger - (imric)
                         It's a risk to the profits of the rich people that make it. -NT - (jake123)
         Re: second hand smoke - (imqwerky) - (2)
             Highly dangerous to dimes in precarious situations! -NT - (imric) - (1)
                 ;-) -NT - (imqwerky)

Loopholes and fine print are there for a reason, and it's not to make you happy.
56 ms