Post #233,781
11/12/05 2:23:19 PM
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Difference of opinion, then.
I don't believe that someones options should be limited by someone else's opinion of what is good for them. That, to me, is not very far removed from not wanting them to associate with (name your group, race, religion here) because you "don't like them".
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #233,783
11/12/05 3:18:00 PM
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No-one's options are being limited by my point of view.
I'm just of the mind that if killing people is what you want to do for a living, then you should actively have to go and seek it out.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #233,790
11/12/05 4:44:30 PM
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The brush is a bit broad
There was a time, here, as well as England, where young men were brought up to do a hitch before enjoying the benifits of the system we live under. Some played slide horn in the band; some killed people. In either case, when they enlisted, they didn't get the choice "killing or not killing?"
It would be nice if everybody sat around the camp fire an sang Kumbaya together. It's not going to happen soon. The military are head breakers; if you want your booboos fixed, call the Peace Corps.
My initial bitch with this was the high schools having to rat out students. College kids can make their own decisions.
If you join the military for any reason or any job classification, you should expect to kill or be responsibile for the killing of people you don't know. That's what they do for a living.
Be a nice socialist and grow up a little, please. Thank you.
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Post #234,059
11/14/05 1:46:15 PM
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Ya know, Bill...
...It's not as if those who would want to be in the military are somehow limited in their ability to get propaganda and lies information about joining the military should they be restricted from access to the high-schooler's and collegians personal info. There's plenty enough info out there for those with the blood-and-guts-and-veins-in-my-teeth mentality to line up, sign up, and turn in their shoes! And that's the red herring in your argument. Colleges have HISTORICALLY (shouting mine, in response to your shouting) had the final say in who can and cannot recruit on campuses...it happens all the time...and those who are not welcome or welcomed onto campus still makange to find employees. Thus shall it be with the Hue-hess milit'ry!
So, unlike Barry, I don't call bullshit. I just call red herring. Nothing to see here, move along...move along....
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #234,064
11/14/05 2:04:53 PM
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Re: Ya know, Bill...
Nice justification of the offense. Same argument as Peter has made.
They can still do it if they want to.
Problem is, YOU are deciding who should and shouldn't be seen based on some prejudice or veiled "difference".
Thats not acceptable around here.
Just the same as when the skinheads want to organize and march in Dayton. I don't like what they stand for, don't agree with anything they say..but DEFEND their right to be there because thats what this thing called freedom is all about.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,066
11/14/05 2:09:42 PM
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There is another POV on this.
The States run the schools. Why should the States be compelled to be recruitment centers for the Fed? You're making a specious argument here. But, you knew that, didn't you?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,072
11/14/05 2:36:55 PM
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You're qualifying again
If they are recruitment officers for anyone, the fed must be included.
Simple, really. If you don't want military recruiting there, don't have any recruiting there at all.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,075
11/14/05 2:40:45 PM
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Private != State != Federal.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,076
11/14/05 2:45:21 PM
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And you continue
with the "but, but, but >this< is different".
Wolf in sheeps clothing.
Denial or restriction of a legal choice because you don't like it.
Gave you the option. You pick.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,079
11/14/05 2:50:03 PM
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It's about States autonomy from this pov.
Thought that might appeal to you. Besides, hell, let's be honest. With the millions upon millions of US Taxpayer dollars going to advertisements on the teevee (not to mention the army's foray into online games), guess where most of these students that do sign up are going to be recruited? That's right, in their living rooms, bedrooms, kitchens, etc.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,090
11/14/05 3:29:13 PM
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No it isn't.
You're moving way down the chain on that.
Its about "Joe's" right to information and access to choices that >you< don't like. You want to tell Joe he can't. You want to infringe on Joe's liberty for (insert your choice of reasons why >this< is different here).
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,098
11/14/05 4:06:01 PM
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Again, this time with feeling.
The States run the schools. The States, therefore, have the right to decide who is permitted on campus. It's curious that you are insisting that the Federal Government has a right to usurp the authority of the States. If the States don't want their schools to be fertile ground for Federal job recruitment then that is clearly within the States rights. It is a big, fat, whopping, "Saddam is an imminent threat" kind of distortion to suggest otherwise.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,103
11/14/05 4:16:15 PM
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You are mixing things up
They can decide if they want to recruit or not.
If they decide to recruit, they can't decide to recruit for "only who you like"...that falls under a completely different section of law.
You are trying to mix up arguments.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,114
11/14/05 5:10:15 PM
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If the Federal Government really wants to, they can
make the states and local governments cooperate.
Section 8, clause 12. Congress has the authority To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; The following clause is about the navy.
I believe that requiring that states and local governments cooperate with the federal efforts to raise armies is within that Congressional grant of power. However right now they aren't choosing to do that. They are waving the carrot of money, not the cudgel of the Constitution. But they don't have to be nice about it.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #234,126
11/14/05 6:30:59 PM
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They can raise armies as needed, but pussy communists
dont allow that. They can open up the draft or even press gangs for any ablebodied male citizen between 16 and 45 bu they cannot force public schools to host recruiters unless other companies are allowed to recruit giving a limited public platform for that type of free speech.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,140
11/14/05 7:26:52 PM
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why don't you tell us what you really feel box.
Don't hold back now ;-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,153
11/14/05 8:39:22 PM
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pussy communists, where the army cant be used in the US
its an ammendment passed after reconstruction tried to destroy the south
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,158
11/14/05 8:48:19 PM
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:-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,211
11/15/05 9:16:48 AM
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What are you on about?
[link|http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=8090|http://www4.army.mil...story_id_key=8090]
Looks to me like the army is being used in the US. And what's with the "pussy" communists? You mean these guys? [link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/21/newsid_3560000/3560175.stm|http://news.bbc.co.u...60000/3560175.stm]
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,216
11/15/05 9:29:29 AM
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rent a movie called tank
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,217
11/15/05 9:33:16 AM
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That '84 Maverick flick? ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #235,671
11/23/05 11:24:18 AM
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"by any means necessary" is implied, then?
I'm not, by any means, an expert on this. And I'm not usually one to argue for States' rights (probably because I'm a descendant of Southerners and "States' Rights" in that region have always been code words for "Racist Policies"). But I don't read that section you posted as necessarily mandating that the States participate.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #235,791
11/23/05 10:25:51 PM
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Not quite ANY means..
But the latitude is wide enough that it has included pressgangs and military drafts in the past. So I'd assume that the federal government has quite a bit of latitude here.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #236,302
11/28/05 12:09:40 PM
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Has that ever been challenged? Did any State try to opt out?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #236,309
11/28/05 1:08:26 PM
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not since 1865
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #236,316
11/28/05 1:55:45 PM
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Thanks. I meant USSC cases. ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #236,338
11/28/05 5:09:24 PM
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Yes, and I do not know
[link|http://www.mainstream.com/nhpolitics/getcase.gillette.html|http://www.mainstrea...ase.gillette.html] is an example of a USSC case involving the draft. (The outcome is that one can't register as a conscientious objecter because you object to the current war.)
I don't know of any cases offhand where a state tried to keep the federal government from enforcing a draft, but I cannot imagine that it would go well for the state. National defence is clearly a federal responsibility in the Constitution.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #234,492
11/16/05 1:54:01 PM
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Red Herring alert number 2581 (or so)
Its about "Joe's" right to information and access to choices that >you< don't like Uhhh...actually no it isn't. Its about giving...no -- let's be accurate here for a change. It's about compelling certain institutions to provide private information to a particular Federal agency (one whose motives are suspect, to be sure; and one whose image, through no fault of its own, is rather tarnished). And, its about one municipality who has given the big digit to said compelling. Military recruiters don't come to high schools to try to win the hears and minds of the Cheeldrins from Big Corporate...they're too chicken, and besides, they can't enlist anybody until they'r basically outof HS anyway. So no "access to choices", whether >I< like them or not, is being impinged. But thank you for playing. It's so much nicer listening to you than Rush or Pat...you, at least, have intelligence.... jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #234,077
11/14/05 2:45:28 PM
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But, must everybody be allowed to recruit if the Fed is?
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #234,078
11/14/05 2:47:23 PM
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Any specific exclusion should be frowned upon
yes.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,171
11/14/05 10:17:46 PM
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How about groups that promote violence and killing?
Of course, that would encompass not only the armed forces, but the Republican Party and the 700 Club.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #234,176
11/14/05 10:27:27 PM
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or democrats depending on your point of view
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,187
11/15/05 12:23:00 AM
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Was wondering where that was headed
yeah...them too.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,214
11/15/05 9:23:15 AM
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Political parties are not businesses either.
So you mean that if business is allowed to recruit, ANY ORGANISATION AT ALL should be allowed to recruit - just clarifying here...
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #234,233
11/15/05 10:56:38 AM
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Are they paying now?
I didn't get my check, in that case.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,251
11/15/05 12:00:26 PM
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Yes you did. $300.00
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #234,256
11/15/05 12:23:42 PM
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That was my money
early loan repayment was all that was.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,212
11/15/05 9:19:38 AM
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How about Al Qaida? CPUSA?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,235
11/15/05 10:58:18 AM
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What, trying to find somebody I don't like?
So that I'll capitulate to your groupthink mentality?
I'm arguing for one already, why would I change my mind for these others.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,248
11/15/05 11:46:37 AM
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Nope. Just testing your metal. ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,380
11/15/05 10:11:46 PM
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Then here's one for you.
North American Man/Boy Love Association.
Alex
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,381
11/15/05 10:13:39 PM
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You're right
don't like them.
But there's also scoutmasters and priests
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,383
11/15/05 10:22:43 PM
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NCLB Sec 9525 covers the Boy Scouts.
[link|http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/pg112.html|No Child Left Behind]. Scroll down to section 9525 - it's the "Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act".
So they don't have anything to worry about...
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #234,487
11/16/05 1:39:18 PM
11/16/05 1:40:15 PM
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Section HOW MANY?!?
No law, in anything resembling a Democracy (even if in name only) should have 9525 sections!
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
Edited by jb4
Nov. 16, 2005, 01:40:15 PM EST
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Post #234,493
11/16/05 1:57:51 PM
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It's not that bad.
[link|http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/index.html|Almost], but not quite. It's better than, say, Title VI, Part XI, Sec 13, Subparagraph J2(ii), isn't it?
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #234,088
11/14/05 3:24:32 PM
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they take the federal dole, thats why
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #234,092
11/14/05 3:31:19 PM
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Even that doesn't feature in my reasoning.
Though it gives them a club, should they (and they often do) want to use it.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #234,100
11/14/05 4:07:38 PM
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Not much, they aren't.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #234,490
11/16/05 1:43:33 PM
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Yes I am...
...as a HS or College administrator, because...as you have most often said in this thread...it happens all the time! And if you want to recant that "it happens all the time" line, fine! Then we'll get onto the no special access part of the argument....
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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