So no police, fire and first responders either?

Post #233,669 by bepatient 11/11/05 9:57:31 PM Reply	So no police, fire and first responders either? If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #233,730 by broomberg 11/12/05 8:48:32 AM Reply	Unlikely Bomb squad? Out. Other than that, maybe. Can we come up with the number of police officers in the country, and then figure out the percentage of them that were killed or maimed in a violent fashion. Falling dead of a heart attack while doing crowd control does not count. Then compare it against the number of soldiers in Iraq as a percentage of the armed forces who have had the same thing happen. It would probably also be good to break it down in age groups. Lot more younger inexperienced people die than older more cautious people, which make them ripe for manipulation. How about we look at it another way? It seems pretty universal in this country that alchohol consumption is not legal until age 21. Why is that? Could it be because people under that age are not deemed mature enough to make rational decisions about alchohol consumption? It can be a life or death decision, and combined with cars can impact others, which is pretty serious, so it is reasonable. Yet we feel they are capable making the decision to join the Army, taking into account the various pros and cons? Bullshit. Recruiters brainwash kids. That is their job. They lie, they overpromise, they ignore the real danger possibilities, they glorify the video game killing aspect of it. They push the patiotic duty aspect, conveniently ignoring that fact we are at war based on a pile of lies. Welcome to 1984. The people in the schools know this. The parents know this. They consider it their responsibility to protect the kids as long as possible. Also, keep in mind, this is not simply a matter of "allowing them in". They want personal information about the kids. A lot. [link\|http://www.leavemychildalone.org/\|http://www.leavemychildalone.org/] Did you know... ... that the notorious No Child Left Behind Act includes a sneaky section that requires high schools to turn over private information on students to military recruiters? And that the Pentagon has created an illegal database of 30 million 16-25 year-olds, including names, addresses, email addresses, cell phone numbers, ethnicities, social security numbers, extracurricular activities, and areas of study? [link\|http://www.leavemychildalone.org/index.cfm?event=showContent&contentid=37\|http://www.leavemych...tent&contentid=37] If you, as a parent, would welcome the recruiter's call, guess what? CALL THEM! They are happy to hear from you. But don't pretend that the military is anything like any other job, including 1st responders, or that are are only want equal access that other organizations get. It is a smoke screen, and you are smarter than that, at least I think you are.
Post #233,749 by bepatient 11/12/05 10:50:42 AM Reply	Oh dear I'm SO OFFENDED (not) You are old enough to have had to register for selective service so the evil gov could keep track of every single eligible soldier. Automate it and some mother builds a website. Please stop pretending like this shit is new. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #233,793 by broomberg 11/12/05 5:04:05 PM Reply	There you go again </Reagan> You addressed nothing of what I said. Nothing! You did the standard "It's always been this way, so why would you bother reacting" response. Words are a bit different, but not much. Your other standard respone is: The other party is just as bad, so who cares what this one is doing. If I'd never met you, I'd think you were a variation on the Marlow-bot. Why do you refuse to engage in any disussion that goes beyond sloganeering?
Post #233,811 by bepatient 11/12/05 7:55:30 PM Reply	I have in several posts And in many fashions. First, you...YOU...are deciding for others what YOU think is best for them. Pumping gas is >safe< so you can do that, fry cook also..but soldiering is DANGEROUS so we should keep you from it. The CHEELDRUN cannot decide. And PLEASE GOD don't use the idiotic alcohol laws in this country to defend this idiocy. And please tell me more about this ILLEGAL DATABASE that is the EXACT SAME THING as selective service. Maybe you don't remember what you sent in..or the fact that big government was tracking your ass...cause they tracked mine across 2 continents (and I didn't tell them I was there). But its really much, much simpler than that. YOU want to decide what is best for THEM. Because they obviously can't decide for themselves. Those EVIL RECRUITERS use evil techniques to sucker them in. So you feel comfortable making that decision for them. Sorry pal. That dog don't hunt with me. If ANY employer is allowed on campus, then the military recruiters must be allowed also. Period. Any other result is simple discrimination, no less evil than Rosa had to face. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #233,812 by broomberg 11/12/05 7:59:02 PM Reply	Fine The second you can quit from the military the way you can quit from a job, then you can treat them on equal footing. Until then, I call bullshit.
Post #233,814 by bepatient 11/12/05 8:01:11 PM Reply	Until then you feel perfectly comfortable telling people what they can and cannot do with their life. Back of the bus for you. The front seats are for the "smart people". If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #233,854 by Ashton 11/13/05 12:53:30 AM Reply	In HS, they aren't 'people'; they are CHILDREN.
Post #233,857 by broomberg 11/13/05 1:09:08 AM Reply	Actually, no They are cannon fodder. But BeeP doesn't mind.
Post #233,867 by bepatient 11/13/05 10:32:27 AM Reply	Nice ad-hom But they cannot sign until they are legal adults. But thats ok, we have people all to willing to make decisions for them and take potential opportunities away from them. We're so lucky that way. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #233,870 by broomberg 11/13/05 10:50:36 AM Reply	While they can't sign until adults you are perfectly happy requiring high schools to send personal information (that no other recruiting entity gets, don't bother giving me that crap about equal access) to the military. And then for the military to contact them in a continous barrage. And for them to ignore the parents of kids who say stop calling if there is a hint that the kids was receptive (plenty of examples if you care to google). So while the day of signing might wait until 18, the thought process is finely influenced for long before then.
Post #233,882 by bepatient 11/13/05 11:56:48 AM Reply	What I've said is that it is NO DIFFERENT TODAY than at any other time. Some website gets you all in a fluff and you ignore the reality that has always been there because the >now< supports your prejudice. I can find supporting positions for ANYTHING on the web if "I care to Google". My position is simple. If McDonalds can recruit on a high school campus then the armed forces should have the same ability. You want to make this bigger than that, enjoy yourself. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #233,946 by imqwerky 11/13/05 9:06:53 PM 11/13/05 9:32:59 PM Reply	McDonald's doesn't train kids to kill or be killed A kid can work at Mickey D's and quit if he/she wants to. You can't quit the military, no siree. You are in for your hitch, if you make it out alive. Big difference. That has been the point all along, Bill! SF wants the kids to go to either college or job training. What is wrong with that? If they change their minds later, so be it. But at least let these kids get a chance to make something of their lives. It's all about vocation. If someone feels the call to be in the military, by all means, follow that call. Most kids have no idea what they want to do with their lives. And LIVE is the operative word here. Were we not in a war, this would not be such a hot issue, but, as it stands, the people of San Francisco obviously feel it is predatory to recruit in high schools. I agree. The kids are too young and inexperienced. Training is minimal at best and then they are shipped to combat. Good luck! Hell, even the experienced soldiers are dying! War is war! Can you blame these people for wanting to preserve a natural resource...their young people? I just want to leave you with one thought. Why is it that only four of the 535 members of Congress have children in the military; only one, Sen. Tim Johnson, D-S.D., has a child who fought in Iraq? Peace, Amy "It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot Edited by imqwerky Nov. 13, 2005, 09:32:21 PM EST Edited by imqwerky Nov. 13, 2005, 09:32:59 PM EST Expand All History
Post #233,948 by boxley 11/13/05 9:10:08 PM Reply	just blow the wrong gender and instant discharge that pig wont fly thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #233,958 by SpiceWare 11/13/05 9:45:18 PM Reply	pun intended? Darrell Spice, Jr. [link\|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass\|Artistic Overpass]\n[link\|http://www.spiceware.org/\|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
Post #233,960 by boxley 11/13/05 9:46:07 PM Reply	nope, just unintended brilliance! :-) "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #233,981 by bepatient 11/14/05 8:18:23 AM Reply	Thank you for proving my point Were we not in a war, this would not be such a hot issue It doesn't matter what the TERMS are, you are hunting for differences to JUSTIFY your position that you know better for the cheeldrun what choices they should be allowed to make as adults by filtering and/or blocking their access to both information and the ability to commit. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #234,057 by jb4 11/14/05 1:36:21 PM Reply	Sorta depends on who you ask... ...The guy who produced "Super-size Me" might argue that they do train their employees to kill. ...But I digress... jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #234,054 by jb4 11/14/05 1:32:37 PM Reply	Re: I have in several posts And please tell me more about this ILLEGAL DATABASE that is the EXACT SAME THING as selective service. Well, for one thing, BeeP, the Selective Service (the doublethink aspect of the name notwithstanding) database is the result of young men (are we registering wimmens yet?) physically supplying the information (allegedly) voluntarily. The ILLEGAL DATABASE (screaming yours) is surreptitously taken from sources other than the subject. But of course, that doesn't bother you none, now does it? jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #234,062 by bepatient 11/14/05 2:00:21 PM Reply	Look. If I were to arrest and try every single person or group that is accused on the net by another person or group of some illegal activity...there wouldn't be anybody left (including us...who have been accused of stalking and other illegal acts by some folks) Grain of Salt unless proven otherwise. And again, not central to any point of mine. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #234,091 by Simon_Jester 11/14/05 3:29:18 PM Reply	Technically not illegal as the law (No Child Left Behind) says to do it. :-) The central issue you're looking for is why does the military (if it's merely a business) get a license to collect this information on kids and Walmart/Disney/whatever does not. After all, they're supposed to have the same access to people on College Campuses.

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