Post #227,751
10/3/05 12:41:44 PM
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Ah, so you're taking it as a dilemma
when there is none. Responding to a secular criticism of the Church with "well, you're wrong and what you cited actually strengthens the Church's position more than yours" does not in any way imply "secular humanism and the Catholic Church are the only choices which exist for moral guidance". --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
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Post #227,770
10/3/05 1:54:24 PM
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Wot, no philosophies that aren't to blame?
Claiming the church is less to blame than the secular philosophies in charge is not an unreasonable argument except the author still failed to acknowledge other philosophies, let alone assert that catholicism was better than them. As catholicism suffers blame, just less than the incumbent systems, this suggests that, say, buddhism could be adopted. It seems the author is too blinkered to see that other philosophies even exist. Which is a red flag as far as I'm concerned.
This leads to the question: which philosophy should be adopted? Another thread, perhaps.
Matthew Greet
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
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Post #227,826
10/3/05 4:55:49 PM
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OK, seriously.
What the hell does this have to do with the original quote? If someone launches an attack on Roman Catholicism, and someone else responds by pointing out flaws in the criticism, why do you think the respondent is under any sort of obligation to talk about other faiths? Here's how this apparently goes in your world: \r\n\r\n \r\nCritic: Yar, the Church is stupid because of foo and bar. \r\nChesterton: Actually, the Church never made claims about foo, and bar strengthens the Church's position more than yours. \r\nYou: Ah-HA! You didn't mention Zoroastrianism in your defense of the Church! You lose! \r\n \r\n\r\n WTF, mate? --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
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Post #227,844
10/3/05 5:39:42 PM
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The church was not strengthened, it was weakened less.
It is not much of an argument to say that catholicism was better than fascism or imperialism because much less mud stuck to it. Other philosophies became automatically better. An obvious conclusion leading to an obvious question, which the author should have addressed if he wanted to maintain that catholicism is still better.
After all, the statement "I'm a multimillionaire" can be automatically dismissed as delusional if I fail to address the obvious question "So, why do you work as a computer programmer?"
Matthew Greet
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
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Post #227,907
10/3/05 11:58:46 PM
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I see.
Let me try it this way. First I'll take a small quote from one of your posts: \r\n\r\n After all, the statement "I'm a multimillionaire" can be automatically dismissed as delusional if I fail to address the obvious question "So, why do you work as a computer programmer?"\r\n
\r\n\r\n Now, I must say that I'm disappointed in you; this quote, which constitutes one part of one post out of the many that you've written, does not comprehensively and specifically address each and every philosophy which has ever existed among humanity or which might ever exist at some point in the future, and therefore I find you ideologically blinkered and intellectually without merit. You really ought to do better if you hope ever to convince anyone. --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
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Post #227,914
10/4/05 2:57:28 AM
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More illustrative example
Suppose you met someone at a party who said "You've heard me. Yes, I am a burglar but I'm nowhere near as bad as the guy you just avoided." Being less immoral than someone else is not a convincing argument. Such a person need not compare himself to every individual in the room, just state some general, comparative, redeeming feature to suggest it's better to talk to him then the other strangers. Anything positive, such as "These guys don't hear half the stories I hear!", might be a start.
Matthew Greet
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
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Post #227,916
10/4/05 3:33:43 AM
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You still don't get it.
My reason for posting the quote in the first place was not to provide a comprehensive argument which establishes the moral superiority of the Catholic Church, yet you persist in assuming this. The reason was to point out in humorous fashion the irony and contradiction of a common argument against the Church, something which appears to have been entirely lost on you. --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
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