If it doesn't have to be that way, can you ...

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Post #227,737

by mmoffitt

10/3/05 12:05:37 PM

If it doesn't have to be that way, can you ...

give an example of a pure Capitalist state (iow, one without significant socialist influence) in which a permanent underclass does not exist?

bcnu,
Mikem

It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell

Post #227,739

by drewk

10/3/05 12:11:28 PM

Sure

Right after you show me a pure communist state without a permanent underclass.

Oh wait, there is not pure communist state. Just as there is no pure capitalist state.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]

Post #227,740

by imric

10/3/05 12:12:51 PM

Nope!

Of course, that says absolutely nothing.

Unless, of course, you are going to say that because something isn't, and hasn't been, that means it cannot be. In which case I'll just laugh, and laugh...

[link|http://www.runningworks.com|

]

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Bill Bennett demostrates he is a racist - (JayMehaffey) - (101) - Sept. 29, 2005, 01:12:39 PM EDT

So are you saying poorosity and blackness *don't* correlate? - (CRConrad) - (65) - Sept. 29, 2005, 02:07:50 PM EDT

Bill Bennett: - (jb4) - (64) - Sept. 29, 2005, 05:52:57 PM EDT

Make no mistake yourself - (ben_tilly) - (63) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:00:17 PM EDT

Mandatory enforced abortions will lead to lower crime rates? -NT - (Another Scott) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:11:30 PM EDT

Uh, Ben...Read me in my posts, dude! - (jb4) - (10) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:20:40 PM EDT

You claim the statement is racist. I claim it is factual. - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Sept. 29, 2005, 08:37:40 PM EDT

C'mon Ben...you know me better 'n that! - (jb4) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2005, 09:47:02 AM EDT

Thank you for the clarification. - (ben_tilly) - Sept. 30, 2005, 12:04:00 PM EDT

want to explain why stating a fact makes you racist? -NT - (boxley) - (6) - Sept. 30, 2005, 09:24:22 AM EDT

Fact? What fact? - (jb4) - (5) - Sept. 30, 2005, 09:49:14 AM EDT

Of course crime rate would go down - (boxley) - (4) - Sept. 30, 2005, 10:05:48 AM EDT

What do you mean by rate? - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:31:38 AM EDT

youts cause crime,removing youts lessens crime -NT - (boxley) - (2) - Sept. 30, 2005, 02:59:29 PM EDT

True! - (ben_tilly) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:02:06 PM EDT

Now we're Getting somewhere! - (Ashton) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:34:14 PM EDT

Other correct statement - legalizing drugs will act similar - (tuberculosis) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:55:54 PM EDT

Can we see even a hand-waving proof of that? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (49) - Sept. 30, 2005, 10:06:28 AM EDT

I didn't think so. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:40:25 AM EDT

Gimme time to type!!! - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Sept. 30, 2005, 12:06:51 PM EDT

Okay. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Sept. 30, 2005, 02:02:22 PM EDT

Look at timestamps!!! - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:00:42 PM EDT

Touchy, aren't ya? - (mmoffitt) - Oct. 3, 2005, 12:10:17 PM EDT

Sure - (ben_tilly) - (43) - Sept. 30, 2005, 12:02:52 PM EDT

I dunno - (pwhysall) - (19) - Sept. 30, 2005, 12:53:35 PM EDT

That one is admittedly harder to prove - (ben_tilly) - (18) - Sept. 30, 2005, 01:14:08 PM EDT

Wouldn't last - (drewk) - (17) - Sept. 30, 2005, 01:39:18 PM EDT

Then show me Canada's permanent underclass -NT - (ben_tilly) - (16) - Sept. 30, 2005, 03:51:19 PM EDT

I don't know Canadian society that well - (drewk) - (13) - Sept. 30, 2005, 03:54:42 PM EDT

They don't but... - (ben_tilly) - (12) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:05:37 PM EDT

I'm not talking about capitalism, but about human nature - (drewk) - (11) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:21:08 PM EDT

Confirmed! 'He who is not One Up is One Down' - (Ashton) - Sept. 30, 2005, 05:17:51 PM EDT

Slavery also used to be defended as inevitable... - (ben_tilly) - (9) - Sept. 30, 2005, 06:30:49 PM EDT

Where did you see me defending it? - (drewk) - (8) - Sept. 30, 2005, 09:25:07 PM EDT

"defended" might be the wrong word - (ben_tilly) - (7) - Sept. 30, 2005, 10:01:55 PM EDT

I may have noticed another aspect - (Ashton) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:05:15 PM EDT

Lots of disagreements - (drewk) - (5) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:08:59 PM EDT

On that last bit... - (Another Scott) - (3) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:33:40 PM EDT

I don't know about that - (drewk) - (1) - Oct. 1, 2005, 12:51:31 AM EDT

You might have a point - see "stranger anxiety" -NT - (ben_tilly) - Oct. 1, 2005, 12:02:24 PM EDT

ethiopian comment, they are racially distinct - (boxley) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:47:19 AM EDT

We do have several disagreements - (ben_tilly) - Oct. 1, 2005, 12:18:21 PM EDT

go to the nearest reservation.... -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:44:12 AM EDT

Granted, but in numbers and societal impact... - (ben_tilly) - Oct. 1, 2005, 12:00:12 PM EDT

Wait a minute... - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2005, 01:31:19 PM EDT

Right, he disproved the argument they didn't make - (drewk) - Sept. 30, 2005, 01:41:12 PM EDT

Man, you took me literally. - (mmoffitt) - (20) - Sept. 30, 2005, 02:09:34 PM EDT

"Forever to have nots?" - (imric) - (7) - Sept. 30, 2005, 02:21:05 PM EDT

Let me be a little more clear. - (mmoffitt) - (6) - Sept. 30, 2005, 03:52:23 PM EDT

I don't see it - (imric) - (3) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:17:41 PM EDT

If it doesn't have to be that way, can you ... - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Oct. 3, 2005, 12:05:37 PM EDT

Sure - (drewk) - Oct. 3, 2005, 12:11:28 PM EDT

Nope! - (imric) - Oct. 3, 2005, 12:12:51 PM EDT

entrenched underclasses are good for business - (boxley) - (1) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:50:58 AM EDT

Henry Ford would argue with you. -NT - (Another Scott) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:57:14 AM EDT

That's not *Ben's* reasoning - (drewk) - (2) - Sept. 30, 2005, 02:29:28 PM EDT

You should read him in his posts. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2005, 03:49:39 PM EDT

Because it is - (drewk) - Sept. 30, 2005, 05:13:10 PM EDT

Speaking of handwaving... - (ben_tilly) - (8) - Sept. 30, 2005, 03:58:55 PM EDT

What about this... - (Another Scott) - (3) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:29:39 PM EDT

What does "permanent" mean to you? - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Sept. 30, 2005, 06:19:00 PM EDT

Briefly... - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2005, 07:32:01 PM EDT

Then we differ on what permanently means - (ben_tilly) - Sept. 30, 2005, 08:16:30 PM EDT

I would then argue for frenco canadians to hold the place - (boxley) - (3) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:56:43 AM EDT

Not comparable - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Oct. 1, 2005, 11:58:05 AM EDT

well ya were a west coaster, lets have jake weigh in on this - (boxley) - (1) - Oct. 1, 2005, 06:43:13 PM EDT

Things are very different now - (jake123) - Oct. 3, 2005, 03:50:18 PM EDT

Jessie Jackson is a racist too. - (Andrew Grygus) - (7) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:02:09 PM EDT

Other cool PC issue - (drewk) - (3) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:12:16 PM EDT

Where do you suppose the people in the West Indies came from -NT - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:25:44 PM EDT

China. - (Another Scott) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:34:38 PM EDT

It's not Africa that's the problem . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:31:38 PM EDT

Well, yes - (JayMehaffey) - (2) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:47:43 PM EDT

The question a racist always has to ask, - (Ashton) - (1) - Sept. 29, 2005, 04:13:22 PM EDT

They called them indefinitely indentured servants. -NT - (folkert) - Sept. 29, 2005, 04:34:26 PM EDT

Wrong. Proves hes a statistician - (bepatient) - (20) - Sept. 29, 2005, 04:41:23 PM EDT

Are all statisticians racist, then? -NT - (mmoffitt) - Sept. 29, 2005, 04:54:54 PM EDT

A poor one though. - (Another Scott) - (13) - Sept. 29, 2005, 05:03:11 PM EDT

You're right, but for the wrong reason - (drewk) - (12) - Sept. 29, 2005, 05:10:58 PM EDT

Superbly stated reason why - - (Ashton) - Sept. 29, 2005, 05:50:47 PM EDT

A slightly different view. - (Another Scott) - (10) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:10:03 PM EDT

Both your views are 'right' IMO - (Ashton) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:58:00 PM EDT

I think you're misunderstanding his point - (drewk) - (8) - Sept. 29, 2005, 07:45:25 PM EDT

Bingo - (bepatient) - (7) - Oct. 1, 2005, 04:37:39 AM EDT

Yes, but be-Not a smug Boolean-head - I know it's Hard, here - (Ashton) - (6) - Oct. 1, 2005, 07:50:30 PM EDT

From you, that's ironic - (drewk) - (4) - Oct. 1, 2005, 07:58:39 PM EDT

Et tu captain clarity: Not. At. All. - (Ashton) - (3) - Oct. 1, 2005, 08:39:06 PM EDT

If by "slogan word" you meant "racism" ... he didn't say it - (drewk) - (2) - Oct. 2, 2005, 07:57:51 AM EDT

[Raises hand] - (Another Scott) - (1) - Oct. 2, 2005, 11:39:00 AM EDT

Oohhh.. spinning the def'n of spin! - (Ashton) - Oct. 2, 2005, 04:31:19 PM EDT

Did you hear the entire thread of his show? - (boxley) - Oct. 2, 2005, 11:22:18 AM EDT

I would suspect both - (JayMehaffey) - (4) - Sept. 29, 2005, 10:18:00 PM EDT

No, he is not "literally" saying what you claim he is - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Sept. 29, 2005, 10:47:15 PM EDT

No argument with your qualified restatement, except - - (Ashton) - (2) - Sept. 29, 2005, 11:04:17 PM EDT

You don't understand. Gambling is a Virtue. :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 29, 2005, 11:08:37 PM EDT

I know.. Guido 'told' me. -NT - (Ashton) - Sept. 30, 2005, 05:20:01 PM EDT

Jesse weighs in on Bennett (new thread) - (drewk) - Sept. 30, 2005, 09:27:21 PM EDT

This thread reminds me of a classic PG essay (new thread) - (ben_tilly) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:12:53 PM EDT

Just an idiot not a racist - (andread) - (3) - Oct. 1, 2005, 08:56:56 AM EDT

:-) - (Another Scott) - (2) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:55:53 AM EDT

Spin? - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Oct. 1, 2005, 11:42:42 AM EDT

Considering the original topic seemed to be Social Security - (Another Scott) - Oct. 1, 2005, 11:58:25 AM EDT

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