Post #227,361
9/30/05 2:21:05 PM
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"Forever to have nots?"
This is not NECESSARY to capitalism. Have nots, yes. Postulating capitalism forever, forever there must be some who have not, relatively speaking. This population need NOT be the same individuals.
You imply that capitalism must have 'have nots' that can never escape; this is NOT necessary to capitalism.
This does not logically follow, though this is one of the areas where we should clean up our implementation of capitalism.
Should you insist that it IS necessary to capitalism, I will insist on logical proof, NOT mere hand-waving on your own part... :-)
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #227,375
9/30/05 3:52:23 PM
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Let me be a little more clear.
If we agree that for capitalism to "work well" it must mature, then (I think) clearly an underclass will develop. And the longer capitalism is allowed to live, the more entrenched that underclass becomes. Up to the point where there is no escape, in fact.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #227,385
9/30/05 4:17:41 PM
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I don't see it
Any more than I see the need for communist societies to be dictatorships.
I believe that our society, based in capitalism can be improved. I do NOT see any need for an 'entrenched' underclass in capitalist society. For some to have more, some must have less, in a society of finite resources. I do NOT think this even implies an underclass. Now, I'm not saying that we don't HAVE an underclass in our (flawed) implementation of capitalism; we do. I'm saying that capitalism does not imply underclass, and lack of an underclass is not mutually exclusive with capitalism.
Socio-economic movement in our country is impaired, yes. It doesn't have to be that way, though.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #227,737
10/3/05 12:05:37 PM
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If it doesn't have to be that way, can you ...
give an example of a pure Capitalist state (iow, one without significant socialist influence) in which a permanent underclass does not exist?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #227,739
10/3/05 12:11:28 PM
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Sure
Right after you show me a pure communist state without a permanent underclass.
Oh wait, there is not pure communist state. Just as there is no pure capitalist state.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #227,740
10/3/05 12:12:51 PM
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Nope!
Of course, that says absolutely nothing.
Unless, of course, you are going to say that because something isn't, and hasn't been, that means it cannot be. In which case I'll just laugh, and laugh...
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #227,478
10/1/05 9:50:58 AM
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entrenched underclasses are good for business
the cops, social workers, prison workers would all have to find real jobs if there was not a designated underclass. What would america's crime statistics and prison population be if all non violent drug and alcohol convictions were removed.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #227,481
10/1/05 9:57:14 AM
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Henry Ford would argue with you.
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