You claim the statement is racist. I claim it is factual.

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Post #227,209 by ben_tilly 9/29/05 8:37:40 PM Reply	You claim the statement is racist. I claim it is factual. I am attributing to you one motive. I am attributing to you the common belief that one should not be allowed to say racist things. Whether or not you really meant that, I cannot tell. But I can tell you that there are many who do use "racist" as a code-word in exactly that fashion. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #227,280 by jb4 9/30/05 9:47:02 AM Reply	C'mon Ben...you know me better 'n that! I've never advocated anything resembling prior restraing to speech. Lord knows, we have enought racists running around allegedly "running" things; how would you propose to muzzle them? (If you did, the entire Republican leadership, and all their talk-radio proxies would never be allowed to speak again...<sarcasm>Hmmmm...maybe you've got something there...<\\sarcasm> The only PC I support is the one sitting on my desk. Is that clear enought for you? jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #227,317 by ben_tilly 9/30/05 12:04:00 PM Reply	Thank you for the clarification. For the record, I hadn't known you better than that, else I would have reacted differently. Sorry, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Bill Bennett demostrates he is a racist - (JayMehaffey) - (101) - Sept. 29, 2005, 01:12:39 PM EDT

So are you saying poorosity and blackness *don't* correlate? - (CRConrad) - (65) - Sept. 29, 2005, 02:07:50 PM EDT

Bill Bennett: - (jb4) - (64) - Sept. 29, 2005, 05:52:57 PM EDT

Make no mistake yourself - (ben_tilly) - (63) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:00:17 PM EDT

Mandatory enforced abortions will lead to lower crime rates? -NT - (Another Scott) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:11:30 PM EDT

Uh, Ben...Read me in my posts, dude! - (jb4) - (10) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:20:40 PM EDT

You claim the statement is racist. I claim it is factual. - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Sept. 29, 2005, 08:37:40 PM EDT

C'mon Ben...you know me better 'n that! - (jb4) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2005, 09:47:02 AM EDT

Thank you for the clarification. - (ben_tilly) - Sept. 30, 2005, 12:04:00 PM EDT

want to explain why stating a fact makes you racist? -NT - (boxley) - (6) - Sept. 30, 2005, 09:24:22 AM EDT

Fact? What fact? - (jb4) - (5) - Sept. 30, 2005, 09:49:14 AM EDT

Of course crime rate would go down - (boxley) - (4) - Sept. 30, 2005, 10:05:48 AM EDT

What do you mean by rate? - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:31:38 AM EDT

youts cause crime,removing youts lessens crime -NT - (boxley) - (2) - Sept. 30, 2005, 02:59:29 PM EDT

True! - (ben_tilly) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:02:06 PM EDT

Now we're Getting somewhere! - (Ashton) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:34:14 PM EDT

Other correct statement - legalizing drugs will act similar - (tuberculosis) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:55:54 PM EDT

Can we see even a hand-waving proof of that? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (49) - Sept. 30, 2005, 10:06:28 AM EDT

I didn't think so. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:40:25 AM EDT

Gimme time to type!!! - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Sept. 30, 2005, 12:06:51 PM EDT

Okay. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Sept. 30, 2005, 02:02:22 PM EDT

Look at timestamps!!! - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:00:42 PM EDT

Touchy, aren't ya? - (mmoffitt) - Oct. 3, 2005, 12:10:17 PM EDT

Sure - (ben_tilly) - (43) - Sept. 30, 2005, 12:02:52 PM EDT

I dunno - (pwhysall) - (19) - Sept. 30, 2005, 12:53:35 PM EDT

That one is admittedly harder to prove - (ben_tilly) - (18) - Sept. 30, 2005, 01:14:08 PM EDT

Wouldn't last - (drewk) - (17) - Sept. 30, 2005, 01:39:18 PM EDT

Then show me Canada's permanent underclass -NT - (ben_tilly) - (16) - Sept. 30, 2005, 03:51:19 PM EDT

I don't know Canadian society that well - (drewk) - (13) - Sept. 30, 2005, 03:54:42 PM EDT

They don't but... - (ben_tilly) - (12) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:05:37 PM EDT

I'm not talking about capitalism, but about human nature - (drewk) - (11) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:21:08 PM EDT

Confirmed! 'He who is not One Up is One Down' - (Ashton) - Sept. 30, 2005, 05:17:51 PM EDT

Slavery also used to be defended as inevitable... - (ben_tilly) - (9) - Sept. 30, 2005, 06:30:49 PM EDT

Where did you see me defending it? - (drewk) - (8) - Sept. 30, 2005, 09:25:07 PM EDT

"defended" might be the wrong word - (ben_tilly) - (7) - Sept. 30, 2005, 10:01:55 PM EDT

I may have noticed another aspect - (Ashton) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:05:15 PM EDT

Lots of disagreements - (drewk) - (5) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:08:59 PM EDT

On that last bit... - (Another Scott) - (3) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:33:40 PM EDT

I don't know about that - (drewk) - (1) - Oct. 1, 2005, 12:51:31 AM EDT

You might have a point - see "stranger anxiety" -NT - (ben_tilly) - Oct. 1, 2005, 12:02:24 PM EDT

ethiopian comment, they are racially distinct - (boxley) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:47:19 AM EDT

We do have several disagreements - (ben_tilly) - Oct. 1, 2005, 12:18:21 PM EDT

go to the nearest reservation.... -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:44:12 AM EDT

Granted, but in numbers and societal impact... - (ben_tilly) - Oct. 1, 2005, 12:00:12 PM EDT

Wait a minute... - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2005, 01:31:19 PM EDT

Right, he disproved the argument they didn't make - (drewk) - Sept. 30, 2005, 01:41:12 PM EDT

Man, you took me literally. - (mmoffitt) - (20) - Sept. 30, 2005, 02:09:34 PM EDT

"Forever to have nots?" - (imric) - (7) - Sept. 30, 2005, 02:21:05 PM EDT

Let me be a little more clear. - (mmoffitt) - (6) - Sept. 30, 2005, 03:52:23 PM EDT

I don't see it - (imric) - (3) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:17:41 PM EDT

If it doesn't have to be that way, can you ... - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Oct. 3, 2005, 12:05:37 PM EDT

Sure - (drewk) - Oct. 3, 2005, 12:11:28 PM EDT

Nope! - (imric) - Oct. 3, 2005, 12:12:51 PM EDT

entrenched underclasses are good for business - (boxley) - (1) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:50:58 AM EDT

Henry Ford would argue with you. -NT - (Another Scott) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:57:14 AM EDT

That's not *Ben's* reasoning - (drewk) - (2) - Sept. 30, 2005, 02:29:28 PM EDT

You should read him in his posts. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2005, 03:49:39 PM EDT

Because it is - (drewk) - Sept. 30, 2005, 05:13:10 PM EDT

Speaking of handwaving... - (ben_tilly) - (8) - Sept. 30, 2005, 03:58:55 PM EDT

What about this... - (Another Scott) - (3) - Sept. 30, 2005, 04:29:39 PM EDT

What does "permanent" mean to you? - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Sept. 30, 2005, 06:19:00 PM EDT

Briefly... - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2005, 07:32:01 PM EDT

Then we differ on what permanently means - (ben_tilly) - Sept. 30, 2005, 08:16:30 PM EDT

I would then argue for frenco canadians to hold the place - (boxley) - (3) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:56:43 AM EDT

Not comparable - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Oct. 1, 2005, 11:58:05 AM EDT

well ya were a west coaster, lets have jake weigh in on this - (boxley) - (1) - Oct. 1, 2005, 06:43:13 PM EDT

Things are very different now - (jake123) - Oct. 3, 2005, 03:50:18 PM EDT

Jessie Jackson is a racist too. - (Andrew Grygus) - (7) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:02:09 PM EDT

Other cool PC issue - (drewk) - (3) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:12:16 PM EDT

Where do you suppose the people in the West Indies came from -NT - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:25:44 PM EDT

China. - (Another Scott) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:34:38 PM EDT

It's not Africa that's the problem . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:31:38 PM EDT

Well, yes - (JayMehaffey) - (2) - Sept. 29, 2005, 03:47:43 PM EDT

The question a racist always has to ask, - (Ashton) - (1) - Sept. 29, 2005, 04:13:22 PM EDT

They called them indefinitely indentured servants. -NT - (folkert) - Sept. 29, 2005, 04:34:26 PM EDT

Wrong. Proves hes a statistician - (bepatient) - (20) - Sept. 29, 2005, 04:41:23 PM EDT

Are all statisticians racist, then? -NT - (mmoffitt) - Sept. 29, 2005, 04:54:54 PM EDT

A poor one though. - (Another Scott) - (13) - Sept. 29, 2005, 05:03:11 PM EDT

You're right, but for the wrong reason - (drewk) - (12) - Sept. 29, 2005, 05:10:58 PM EDT

Superbly stated reason why - - (Ashton) - Sept. 29, 2005, 05:50:47 PM EDT

A slightly different view. - (Another Scott) - (10) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:10:03 PM EDT

Both your views are 'right' IMO - (Ashton) - Sept. 29, 2005, 06:58:00 PM EDT

I think you're misunderstanding his point - (drewk) - (8) - Sept. 29, 2005, 07:45:25 PM EDT

Bingo - (bepatient) - (7) - Oct. 1, 2005, 04:37:39 AM EDT

Yes, but be-Not a smug Boolean-head - I know it's Hard, here - (Ashton) - (6) - Oct. 1, 2005, 07:50:30 PM EDT

From you, that's ironic - (drewk) - (4) - Oct. 1, 2005, 07:58:39 PM EDT

Et tu captain clarity: Not. At. All. - (Ashton) - (3) - Oct. 1, 2005, 08:39:06 PM EDT

If by "slogan word" you meant "racism" ... he didn't say it - (drewk) - (2) - Oct. 2, 2005, 07:57:51 AM EDT

[Raises hand] - (Another Scott) - (1) - Oct. 2, 2005, 11:39:00 AM EDT

Oohhh.. spinning the def'n of spin! - (Ashton) - Oct. 2, 2005, 04:31:19 PM EDT

Did you hear the entire thread of his show? - (boxley) - Oct. 2, 2005, 11:22:18 AM EDT

I would suspect both - (JayMehaffey) - (4) - Sept. 29, 2005, 10:18:00 PM EDT

No, he is not "literally" saying what you claim he is - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Sept. 29, 2005, 10:47:15 PM EDT

No argument with your qualified restatement, except - - (Ashton) - (2) - Sept. 29, 2005, 11:04:17 PM EDT

You don't understand. Gambling is a Virtue. :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 29, 2005, 11:08:37 PM EDT

I know.. Guido 'told' me. -NT - (Ashton) - Sept. 30, 2005, 05:20:01 PM EDT

Jesse weighs in on Bennett (new thread) - (drewk) - Sept. 30, 2005, 09:27:21 PM EDT

This thread reminds me of a classic PG essay (new thread) - (ben_tilly) - Sept. 30, 2005, 11:12:53 PM EDT

Just an idiot not a racist - (andread) - (3) - Oct. 1, 2005, 08:56:56 AM EDT

:-) - (Another Scott) - (2) - Oct. 1, 2005, 09:55:53 AM EDT

Spin? - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Oct. 1, 2005, 11:42:42 AM EDT

Considering the original topic seemed to be Social Security - (Another Scott) - Oct. 1, 2005, 11:58:25 AM EDT

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