Crunchy squeaky car noise in my front left

Post #226,155 by broomberg 9/23/05 12:04:30 PM Reply	Crunchy squeaky car noise in my front left Mazda Millennia. 1998, Not S model. 80K miles. After driving for 15-30 minutes, it starts to make "crunchy" noises in the front left area. Does more when you turn left, also when hotting the brake or hitting a pothole. Semi-knowledgable friends say ball-joint. Take it in. They can't reproduce (did not know about the time requirement yet). Said the ball-joints are fine (how can you tell, aren't they sealed?) Had brake work done - I definitely needed that. Got car back. Make noice after X amount of drive time. Call back - tell them, they say bring it in. I do. Mechanic gets in. Drives around the corner. Says not ball joint, says suspension. Put on lift. See a bunch of (forget what they are called, little rubber things around the various pieces of the suspension) in varying stages of dry rot. Can't reproduce noise on lift. Unable to tell where it is coming from. Guy says it is not dangerous, just annoying, and it can be driven for quite some time. Tells me to let it go until they can better diagnose. If not, gives a ball park of $1,400 to replace all, except I think he's wrong and will find out he needs to get the parts for the dealership, and it will go up. Confirms multiple times not dangerous. The other guy, who wants to sell something, tells me my struts are due. Should have been replaced at 60K. I say, makes sense (not really knowing). Other guy (the real mechanic) says it won't fix the noise, it is not coming from there. But hey, good idea. Quote of $350. They then tell me oops, can't get the struts after market, up the bill to $640. I say (yich, but ok). They won't have the parts until tomorrow. My car pool driver says I'm being screwed, that American cars need new struts at 60K, but Japanese cars don't. Car guy calls me this morning, says they won't be able to get them for at least 4 days. I say hold off until next week. So: #1 - Do I replace the struts on "schedule", or is it stupid? #2 - Am I being killed on price? #3 - Do I trust them on the source of the squeak, and that it is safe?
Post #226,160 by Another Scott 9/23/05 12:58:16 PM Reply	Some thoughts... 1) If your struts are bad there are simple tests to demonstrate that. a) Quickly push the corner of the car down and let go. The corner should go down, bounce up and then stop. If it keeps bouncing, you need a strut there. b) Are your tires cupped? If so, you may need struts. 2) If you don't need struts based on #1, don't get them. 3) Rubber bushings do wear out, but they can look nasty and still be fine. Don't replace them just because they look bad. 4) Noises can be lots of things. If it's not wheel bearings or other suspension noises, it's probably not something to worry about. But someone should be able to figure out where it's coming from.... 5) We spent ~ $850 for rear struts and a 4 wheel alignment on a 1983 Corolla at a local shop. I think the dealer price was a little less. The dealer should be able to tell you how many hours it would take (they have books of these numbers). Take that and their labor rate, get the cost of the parts, add in tax and "shop supplies" and you'll know what it should cost. It sounds reasonable to me. Bottom line - don't spend any more money until you know more. HTH. Luck! Cheers, Scott.
Post #226,165 by bepatient 9/23/05 1:03:09 PM Reply	Check strut seals and ball joint seals. Most likely its the soft rubber goods...or "strut tops" that are causing. You should hear the same noise if you bounce the car. (maybe not as pronounced) If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #226,166 by Andrew Grygus 9/23/05 1:07:04 PM Reply	I take it this is not a rolling sort of crunchy noise . . . which would be wheel bearings. #1: As for struts, if the car isn't "bouncy" at the front, they're probably OK. If it bounces at all they need replacement. If front wheel drive, could well be the ball joints (constant velocity joints) in the axle shafts. These will make noise before you can feel any slack on a lift. When they get real worn you start getting some vibration at higher speeds which varies with how much power you are applying and whether you're turning right or left. #2: Axle shafts are generally replaced with refurbed units that cost about $80 each for the cars I've had - around $120 to $150 with labor (easy to replace on most cars - but not all). #3: So long as you aren't driving an MG Sports Sedan (1960's) noise from axles isn't dangerous - you'll get more vibration than you can stand long before they give up. Those MG turkeys had rubber constatnt velocity joints and they could kill you. It was also the only car I've ever heard of where the engine would be destroyed in a few miles if you left the dip stick out. Alex Isogones was supposed to be a great auto designer, but I have serious doubts. As for identifying the source of the squeak, reliability is impossible. Automobile noises are highly deceptive until they get really, really bad. Often it's hard to even say which side they come from. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #226,168 by Ashton 9/23/05 1:21:12 PM Reply	What he said. Particularly through mid-90s (just don't Know.. yet - if QC dropped a bit after ~95?) Japanese assembled cars, more especially the Yuppie-grade: were best-assembled anywhere in the world; ditto materials (generally). In particular the 'shocks' == actually "Mc Pherson struts" == that 'tower' that bolts into those bumps above the F. wheel-well? which you see on opening hood: are particularly trouble-free to well past 100K miles. That's "generally"; if you have a mining claim and drive 70 mph over dirt roads, well - - 'Squeaks' can.. be traced to something as simple as (not ALL the rubber bushings!) - sometimes the cylindrical-shaped ones which hold the "anti-roll bar" in place / these may be rubber or more often, a plastic compound. Those can be lubed (dunno the preferrd lube). Sometimes without removal; other times: a couple bolts per each "cushion"-holder. You can see this 'bar' from under the car, even if you're not very auto-tech savvy. Maybe a specialty alignment/frame shop will give you straighter poop than a all-trades mechanic? What you seem to be getting are 'estimates' to make boat payments ;-) sorta like an AMA Doctor who doesn't know what you have, but has a Techno-name anyway: "non-specific vaginitis" / here: fill this Rx and call me next week.. Luck; it's a crap shoot on such diagnoses. As you've found. moi PS - I've followed similar tales re my car and similar (a '94), as led to some analyses of worldwide 'QC' - hence my comments on the unlikelihood that your year/model would need much in the way of suspension repairs, from "normal wear". Accidents = another matter.
Post #226,178 by ChrisR 9/23/05 2:03:46 PM 9/23/05 2:04:43 PM Reply	I think it's the axle. Critter's car is a 1998 Nissan Altima. A few years ago, we had a bad snowstorm (yes, we actually do get snow in North Texas.) Anyhoo, I had to go to the grocery store to get milk and bumwadden. I was thiiiiis close to making it home unscathed when the car started to skid. It smacked squarely against the curb right where the drainage opening existed. Had to get a new something or other. About 3 months ago, a tire needed to be replaced. Upon further inspection, we were told that the axle was in bad shape and needed to be replaced. I was p.o.'ed because I thought they were trying to screw us. Took it to a friend who confirmed that the axle was bad. He told us that when it started to click, it was only a matter of time before it would fall completely out. Right now, it makes lovely crunchy noises, especially on turns. There is a boot that is supposed to go on the axle joint that prevents the car from hitting the inside of the tire well. My guess is that the boot has deteriorated and that is part of your noise. Just call me Ms. Fix-It :-) Happily driving a piece o' crap, Amy Gahhh! Puter logged on as ChrisR! I'm Her Qwerkiness! Edited by ChrisR Sept. 23, 2005, 02:04:43 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #226,359 by Steve Lowe 9/25/05 4:02:54 AM Reply	More accurately a CV joint There's 2 cv joints on each axle. More often than not, it's easier and cheaper to replace the entire axle assembly than to rebuild the CV (constant velocity) joint. I'd assumed Barry's mechanic would have caught that as they're fairly obvious when they go. Many times they'll go without outward sign of failure, ie the boots being split, but the noise they make is pretty obvious to a mechanic. Clicking noises on turning are almost always CV joints, and yes, once they start to go, there's no recovery. In fact, if the boot ever is cracked or split, replace the joint or axle soon, as death is iminent. If the car noises going over bumps or while going straight down the road, it's probably something else. -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #226,360 by pwhysall 9/25/05 4:06:10 AM Reply	Question Aren't CV joints a feature of FWD cars? i.e. my [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org/pics/random/Car/\|car] doesn't have them? Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #226,362 by Steve Lowe 9/25/05 5:36:53 AM Reply	Mostly Additionally, pretty much all AWD cars and many 4WD trucks and SUVs use them on the front, and many RWD cars with IFS use them in the rear. -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #226,375 by broomberg 9/25/05 1:41:03 PM Reply	No noise unless heated up And then more "crunchy" than clicky. I've replaced them before on my Honda, feels different. At this point we will take the car to the Mazda dealer for a diagnoses. Hopfully they will have a better idea, having more experience with this type of car.
Post #226,299 by boxley 9/24/05 11:52:52 AM Reply	CV Joints? but the mechanic should catch that "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #226,334 by folkert 9/24/05 7:58:11 PM Reply	There is "rubber" lubricant... My father in-law used to have a 1984 Ford Tempo. He had 5 different noises, 1 at 3 corners, 2 at the passenger side Front. Shocks were good, the spring were well within squat-limits (Front and Rears == Coiled Struts). One corner had a "clung-clung-clung" sound when the steering wheel turned. The other had a Sequak with any movement of the car and a grinding noise when ever the car went over a bump. The rears had a rattle, other had a loud click once in a while The "clung-clung-clung" was fixed by the rubber lubricant after a good spraying at a carwash, there was a lot crud and dirt above the spring mount causing the strut-bearing to bind. The squeak was fixed by cleaning (at the car wash) and lubricating the the rubber stabilizer bar's bushings, we did all four. The grinding noise ended up being a "stick caught in the spring" across diameter as a chord, sort of like crossways and dragged on the plastic of the fender wheel. The click, was the lower control arm rubber bushings, stuck to the bolt which was binding and then meeting a "break-point" and let go. Had to keep lubricating that one for a couple of weeks. The rattle ended up being the Strut Dust-cover that was loose from the top of the spring mount. He had driven with these problems for years (except the stick) and I finally had to convince him to fix them. AS far as the prices, get an over the phone quote (tell them it is just for estimating how long you need to save) and that you won't "hold them to it" assuming a "no additional problems found while fixing". Every dealership I know of will do that, barring the Mercedes/Audi/VW/Porsche/Saab dealer in town. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* [image\|http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg\|\|\|\|]
Post #226,358 by Steve Lowe 9/25/05 3:55:21 AM Reply	Sounds like bushings. -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #226,433 by admin 9/25/05 11:04:41 PM Reply	Definitely need to replace the muffler bearings. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #226,438 by broomberg 9/25/05 11:58:00 PM Reply	Huh? Where the hell is that? If in the rear, wrong area. If in the manifold, maybe. Or are you just playing?
Post #226,446 by Another Scott 9/26/05 12:16:30 AM Reply	They're next to the bitumogeneous spandrels.
Post #226,449 by broomberg 9/26/05 12:25:59 AM Reply	Cool [link\|http://dr-joe.net/Illusions/parastatic.htm\|http://dr-joe.net/Il...ns/parastatic.htm]
Post #226,455 by ben_tilly 9/26/05 1:15:41 AM Reply	Excellent. Love it. I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #226,472 by Ashton 9/26/05 2:35:01 AM Reply	A patent rip-off of 'The Turbo Encabulator in Industry' [link\|http://www.csd.uwo.ca/staff/magi/personal/humour/General_Audience/The%20Turbo%20Encabulator.html\| here]. Somewhere I have a crude purple-type mimeograph, from the early '50s; it was around campus.. My guess: Mr. J. L. Schwartz, Senior Researcher, Lotus International, Inc. received his training in Redmond. Didn't see any ref to the work plagiarized and slightly morphed - like that familiar Escheresque drawing, probably older than I am. He even steals the syntax of the paragraphs! Should anyone Tell him he's Busted? (It's '05 - maybe of no consequence.)
Post #226,503 by drewk 9/26/05 10:18:01 AM Reply	THANK YOU! [sigh] Now I can stop thinking about it === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #226,460 by cforde 9/26/05 1:26:33 AM Reply	nah, probably the lights running low on halogen fluid Have fun, Carl Forde
Post #226,462 by pwhysall 9/26/05 1:29:45 AM Reply	Needs to check his flux capacitor. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #226,466 by drewk 9/26/05 2:01:56 AM Reply	Okay, I give I've been wracking my brain trying to remember the name of that device. The one with the hugely detailed diagrams and impenetrable techno-babble. But I can't remember it. Anyone know what I'm talking about? === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #226,467 by bepatient 9/26/05 2:15:19 AM Reply	Thingamajig? If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #226,468 by drewk 9/26/05 2:16:55 AM Reply	Nope, and not a whatchamacallit, either === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #226,469 by bepatient 9/26/05 2:18:25 AM Reply	How about the whoziwhatsit? If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #226,504 by drewk 9/26/05 10:19:33 AM Reply	See above ... Ashton got it === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #226,474 by Ashton 9/26/05 2:45:22 AM Reply	Wiki wiki wiki [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_capacitor\| here]. Heh, wish I had a scanner (about twice a year..) Have on my reefer a pic of some sort of HV stack, obv a Cockroft-Walton device with many decks, and similar to what we used as ion sources for accelerators - only This Mother dwarfs a man standing on floor! .. most everything is suspended from ceiling of the room / its 3-D ground-plane =='ground cube'. Massive insulators, shiny aluminum gradient rings -- the grown-up version of those primitive Jacobs Ladder thingies. Fun stuff.

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