Wretched excess....

Post #225,586 by dmcarls 9/20/05 10:06:08 AM Reply	Wretched excess.... Tons of British aid donated to help Hurricane Katrina victims to be BURNED by Americans . . . "The food, which cost British taxpayers millions, is sitting idle in a huge warehouse after the Food and Drug Agency recalled it when it had already left to be distributed. Scores of lorries headed back to a warehouse in Little Rock, Arkansas, to dump it at an FDA incineration plant." . . . "Food from Spain and Italy is also being held because it fails to meet US standards and has been judged unfit for human consumption. And Israeli relief agencies are furious that thousands of gallons of pear juice are to be destroyed because it has been judged unfit." [link\|http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16147117%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=exclusive--58--up-in-flames-name_page.html\|http://www.mirror.co...es-name_page.html] Don't want people getting sick, do we?
Post #225,610 by GBert 9/20/05 12:18:49 PM Reply	Re: Wretched excess.... ...anger and ... shame that the world's richest nation couldn't organise a p**s up in a brewery Have whatever values you have. That's what America is for. You don't need George Bush for that.
Post #225,654 by ben_tilly 9/20/05 7:25:19 PM Reply	I'd want to see both sides of this story The USA pays farmers to not plant crops. By contrast most of Europe buys the crops and warehouses them, then has them on hand to give in case of disaster. They often sit in warehouses for a long time waiting for an appropriate disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if the food really wasn't good. Good enough to be better than nothing if you're starving in Somalia. A little extra..protein..in your wheat might even be good for you. But not good enough to use when there is decent food available. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #225,655 by Another Scott 9/20/05 7:53:00 PM Reply	Der Spiegel has a similar story. [link\|http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,374268,00.html\|Here], from September 12: Last week, a German military cargo jet carrying 15 tons of food labored into the air bound for the United States. The goal, of course, was to feed needy victims of Hurricane Katrina. But the food supplies never made it. Refused permission to land, the plane was forced to turn around and head back to Cologne, still fully loaded. Food from other countries has likewise been banned. Why was the aid not accepted? As it turns out, the US Department of Agriculture had rejected the rations -- originally prepared for NATO troops -- out of fear they may be tainted with bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), the agent thought to cause mad cow disease. Despite intensive efforts on the part of Germany's foreign ministry, the US government refused to give the plane flyover rights. But officers at a US base in Pensacola -- where previous German aid planes had landed -- believe there was another reason. In reality, the critics said, the Bush government was trying to avoid embarrassing images of Europeans making food relief deliveries to the States. After all, the meals had already been certified by NATO as BSE-free. Additionally, the same types of meals have been used in common deployments in Afghanistan, and they've also been consumed by American troops. Startled by a query from SPIEGEL on Friday evening, the US Embassy here in Berlin said the ban on the pre-prepared meals delivered from Germany would be lifted. Indeed, the shiny, new US Ambassador to Germany, William Timken, had only recently thanked the German government for the first 20,000 donated meals -- all of which have already been eaten by Katrina victims. I have to assume that this is a bureaucratic mixup about the rules rather than a deliberate policy so that we aren't embarrassed, or something. I would hope that clearer policies would be drawn up and in place for the next time. I do note though that just about every charitable organization says that it's best to donate cash rather than supplies or equipment. The [link\|http://www.usembassy.de/germany/hurricane.html\|US Embassy in Germany] has similar statements, as does the [link\|http://www.bushclintonkatrinafund.org/\|Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund]. Of course, if transportation and masses of equipment or supplies are being offered, it's a different matter than if charities are collecting onesies-twosies. I haven't seen anything from the feds about this though... FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #225,659 by ben_tilly 9/20/05 8:44:22 PM Reply	Ah. That would be stupider than what I was thinking. Given that the US cow population has been exposed to mad cow and we do not test widely, it is a safe bet that we have mad cow in domestic stocks that has entered the food supply. Given that US doctors aren't on the lookout for it, it is a safe bet that before we realize this, there will be an unnecessarily high number of exposures. Just to put the problem in perspective, I've seen the total number of people who got it in Europe estimated at 150 people. That's better than a million to one odds against getting it. So before you eat your next hamburger, think about those odds and ask how lucky you feel. :-) Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #225,665 by Silverlock 9/20/05 9:31:02 PM Reply	I like burgers. But I think I may stop eating them. ----------------------------------------- George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty. --Donald Dean Richards Jr.
Post #225,666 by Andrew Grygus 9/20/05 9:39:40 PM Reply	Burgers shouldn't be a Mad Cow problem . . . . . because it's not caried by muscle meats. On the other hand, given current corporate ethics, you might want to grind your own to make sure muscle meat is all that's in there. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #225,690 by ben_tilly 9/21/05 3:17:35 AM Reply	How much do you drive each year? If you drive more than 100 miles per year, each year you have a risk of dying in traffic accidents that is higher than your lifetime risk of getting mad cow from eating beef. (That is if Europe is a guide to what will happen in the USA.) Yes, it is a risk. But if you really like beef, there is no need to go overboard worrying about it. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #225,711 by Silverlock 9/21/05 8:57:38 AM Reply	I don't drive. ----------------------------------------- George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty. --Donald Dean Richards Jr.
Post #225,755 by ben_tilly 9/21/05 2:21:17 PM Reply	Do you think that you'll take more than 2 dozen trips by... airplane in your life? [link\|http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm\|http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm] suggests that if you do, then your lifetime risk from flying passed one in a million. Note that if some of your flights have layovers, then your risks mount faster still. While I'm all for reducing the odds of getting BSE, one in a million is remote odds. About your chances of getting murdered this year. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #225,772 by Silverlock 9/21/05 3:34:46 PM Reply	OK Mr statistic I'll switch to an all beef diet pronto. :) ----------------------------------------- George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty. --Donald Dean Richards Jr.
Post #225,781 by ben_tilly 9/21/05 4:25:40 PM Reply	Another Atkins convert! My work is done! :-) I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #225,814 by Ashton 9/21/05 6:52:34 PM Reply	Cute, but 'Atkins' remains a simplistic idea - the label kinda connotes digital Yes/No think, thus pissing off the purveyors of (shall we say?) more thoughtful approaches - which see that yes, 'health' does involve consuming less than the average US intake of carbs - but 'fewer carbs' is just part of any intelligent equation. (I've been on one of those Other 'regimens' for over a year, now, and could comment on results - weight-loss yes; mere byproduct: that Wasn't the Point! etc.) Muricans Love the One-shot simplistic Answer, but I expect a bit more of the IWE-depraved :-0 Carrion
Post #225,815 by broomberg 9/21/05 6:53:59 PM Reply	Don't forget the cheese and crispy wings.
Post #225,949 by Silverlock 9/22/05 11:28:49 AM Reply	No chance of that happening ----------------------------------------- George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty. --Donald Dean Richards Jr.
Post #226,385 by Andrew Grygus 9/25/05 4:32:33 PM Reply	Evil! Evil! Trans fats! Fast food outfits mostly use partially hydrogenated oils now and their fried items have massive amounts of trans fats. Even the American Heart Association, which long promoted partially hydrogenated oils as a "healthier alternative" is now launching a multi-million dollar campaign denouncing them. They are noted to be the most effective builder of "bad" cholesterol in the blood of any common food. There's controversy about saturated fats, but not about transfats. Of course, if you make your own, you'll be right up against what the fast food folks are up against. Polyunsaturated vegetable oils become rancid carcinogens at deep fry temperatures, health nuts and PETA will crucify you if you use safer beef tallow or lard. That leaves more expensive olive pomace or even more expensive (but higher temperature) rice bran oil. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #226,395 by Another Scott 9/25/05 5:33:25 PM Reply	Any thoughts about Dow's NATREON? There's a full page ad for it in this week's Economist. [link\|http://www.natreon.com\|http://www.natreon.com] Developed by Dow AgroSciences LLC, Natreon* canola oil is a naturally-stable alternative to partially hydrogenated oils used in commercial food applications. Natreon is now readily available to restaurants, food service and food manufacturers. Virtually trans fat-free and low in saturated fat, its use can substantially improve the nutrition profile of food products by reducing both trans fat and saturated fat. I guess if processed sugar can be trademarked, then why not Canola oil... Cheers, Scott.
Post #226,397 by Andrew Grygus 9/25/05 6:30:29 PM 9/25/05 6:51:32 PM Reply	Well, Canola itself is a made-up name . . . . . from "Canada" and "Oil" to designate a non-toxic variety of rapeseed oil (regular rapseed oil is a useful lubricating oil but will destroy your health if you cook with it). The oil profile looks a bit better (7%S 72%M 21%P vs. 7%S 61%M 32%P) than for regular canola oil and its anti-oxidant content is apparently effective given their oxidation claim (21%P is still pretty high and needs good antioxident control). It could be a pretty good frying oil though regular Canola has a smoke point of 400°F, a bit low, so maybe they've been able to move that up a bit? Probably not because they don't mention it. The Omega 3 content is controversial as it is a different form than in fish oil and may not be easily used by the body, so I'd soft pedal that point. Also, evidence against the saturated fats in Olive Oil, and especially Coconut oil (93% saturated) is extremely weak or invalid or non-existant, so I'd discard that point too. On the other hand, Sunflower oil, normally one of the worst frying oils, has been developed to a "high oleic" version that easily exceeds the characteristics of Natreon at 9%S 82%M 9%P and has a 450°F smoke point. The problem for baked goods will be, of course, the low saturated fat content. For many baked goods your choices are generally coconut oil, animal fats, or trans fats. Leaf lard (from around the kidneys of pigs) is the best. A new product also works well, Crisco Zero Trans vegetable shorening, made from a blend of fully hydrogenated cottonseed oil, hard as a hocky puck, and regular vegetable oil to soften it. Guess what "fully hydrogenated" oil is. It's the very same saturated fat the whole vegetable oil sham was supposed get you away from. Olive Oil, by the way, is 15%S 75%M 10%P and Olive Pomace oil can go a touch higher than 450°F. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx] Edited by Andrew Grygus Sept. 25, 2005, 06:51:32 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #225,790 by Andrew Grygus 9/21/05 5:00:46 PM Reply	The Los Angeles Times had an article on this . . . . . Tuesday of this week entitled Fear of Disasters Is Real, but Not Always Rational which included Q&A with a UCLA psychiatrist and expert in mass hysteria and a chart of common causes of death. Mad Cow did't appear, but for your one year chances of death Heart Disease was 1/300, Automobile 1/6,700, Airplane was 1/380,000, Hurricane was 1/17,000,000. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #225,791 by jb4 9/21/05 5:02:40 PM Reply	I imagine my hurricane risk is substantially lessened Due to the fact that there damn few hurricanes in Waukegan.... jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #225,794 by Andrew Grygus 9/21/05 5:09:39 PM Reply	Yea, we don't have 'em here much either, but . . . . . earthquakes didn't make the list. Farthest down they went was Amusement park rides at 1/70,000,000. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #225,793 by ben_tilly 9/21/05 5:05:12 PM Reply	I'll bet the hurricane risk is higher this year I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #225,796 by drewk 9/21/05 5:14:11 PM Reply	No it's not Risk is a predictor. For something that happened in the past I believe you'd want "odds". :-P === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #225,797 by ben_tilly 9/21/05 5:19:41 PM Reply	Point, but Rita's still on the warpath... I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #225,817 by Ashton 9/21/05 7:35:41 PM Reply	Let's not totally-forget 'Gaia' (or by any other name) re these ummm 'statistical aberrations'? - She could be getting a Bit Pissed at the way we'unses are pissing on her peonies, crapping on her sea-life, polluting/vandalizing My Green Fields and otherwise trashing the only nest in sight. She may have figured out just how dull is our attention span - and how we just might Need a nice Phat demo of ~what a Gigaton-of-TNT manifests-like ?? (Hey, this model's got fewer holes than them Revelations comic books - and look at the 63M copies (x $X/per) which That refugee from a Nintendo brainstorming party has managed.)
Post #225,663 by Silverlock 9/20/05 9:09:55 PM Reply	I find it hard to agree with you on this I have to assume that this is a bureaucratic mixup Dude, Karl freakin Rove just got placed as the head of disaster relief. To the current set of screwjobs occupying the white house, a disaster like this is like manna from heaven. Government contracts mean money. No-bid only makes it more profitable. My opinion is that this is the single most corrupt administration to ever control the purse-strings of the US. Where is Halliberton trading right now? Let me say that one more time; Karl freakin Rove just got placed as the head of disaster relief. ----------------------------------------- George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty. --Donald Dean Richards Jr.
Post #225,670 by Another Scott 9/20/05 10:43:41 PM Reply	Yes, but the Der Spigel story was from 9/12. I agree with you that having [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/15/politics/15bush.html\|Karl Rove] in charge (even if only in the White House) of New Orleans reconstruction is nonsensical. But I really doubt that the decision on what planes were allowed to overfly New Orleans or what cargo was allowed in was made in the West Wing. [aside] AFAIK, the only source for the story of Rove being put in charge is that NY Times story above. It says: Instead, administration officials and a Republican close to the White House said Mr. Bush would offer some general principles about "building a better New Orleans" with stricter construction standards to try to avoid a replay of the recent catastrophe. Republicans said Mr. Bush would not mention a price tag, in large part because of budget and political pressures from House Republicans and other supporters angry about administration spending. Republicans said Karl Rove, the White House deputy chief of staff and Mr. Bush's chief political adviser, was in charge of the reconstruction effort, which reaches across many agencies of government and includes the direct involvement of Alphonso R. Jackson, secretary of housing and urban development. As of Wednesday, few if any members of Congress had been informed by the administration of the president's plans. Also, I don't see any questions from the press about it in the White House press briefings [link\|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/briefings/\|transcripts]. FWIW. [/aside] [link\|http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050910/ap_on_re_eu/katrina_germany\|Yahoo News]: Sat Sep 10,11:18 AM ET BERLIN - A German military plane carrying 15 tons of military rations for survivors of Hurricane Katrina was sent back by U.S. authorities, officials said Saturday. The plane was turned away Thursday because it did not have the required authorization, a German government spokesman said. The spokesman, speaking on customary condition of anonymity, declined to comment on a report in the German news magazine Der Spiegel that U.S. authorities refused the delivery on the grounds that the NATO military rations could carry mad cow disease. The spokesman said U.S. authorities had since given approval for future aid flights, but it was unclear whether the German military would try again to deliver the rations. Since Hurricane Katrina struck the United States, many international donors have complained of frustration that bureaucratic entanglements have hindered shipments to the United States. A U.S. Embassy official, who agreed to discuss the matter only if not quoted by name, blamed the German flight's rejection on temporary technical and logistical problems that have accompanied recovery operations in the devastated region. German military planes have flown several loads of rations to the Gulf Coast. Berlin is also sending teams equipped with high-capacity pumps to help clear floodwaters. That Thursday would have been September 8. "Brownie" would have still been at FEMA (he resigned on 9/12). Rove that week was recovering from his kidney stone surgery and/or apparently trying to shift the blame to the Mayor and Governor - do you really think he was thinking about landing rights for aircraft? The federal government is huge. Just the White House Staff is [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/administration/whbriefing/2004stafflistb.html\|several hundred paid people]. I count 430 in 2004. That doesn't include the military staff, the interns, volunteers, etc. But they don't have the time, inclination, or skill to manage things at such a low level. Quite often in large organizations, the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. The idea that Karl Rove was directing that some German planes would be turned back while others would be allowed in is a little silly, isn't it? Don't be so paranoid, eh? Remember Napoleon's [link\|http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/n/napoleonbo130787.html\|aphorism]. :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #225,675 by Ashton 9/20/05 11:22:27 PM 9/20/05 11:24:43 PM Reply	Rove with $$ ~~ Willie Sutton as Head of the FDIC Edited by Ashton Sept. 20, 2005, 11:24:43 PM EDT Expand All History

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