Post #221,103
8/26/05 4:03:16 PM
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Ok, how do I talk to my daughter?
Took her in to clinic because of possible throat infection and possible yeast infection.
Doctor just called her and gave her the diagnosis. She just called me. Crying. From what I understood, the diagnosis is Chlamydia, a STD. She says she's not active, "how could i get it?".
Google gives only 3 ways of acquiring it. Vaginal, anal, or oral sex. Nothing about getting it from the "toilet seat".
I called the clinic. Nurse told me that she cannot discuss it with me (WTF, she's a minor child) and could call daughter back to discuss it further with her. So, no help in confirming the diagnosis.
And mom knows nothing about it. (wife's daughter, my step daughter) I think daughter is more willing to talk to me about it than to talk to mom.
So.....
How, what, suggestions? And no, I'm not going to be mad or angry with her.
never a dull moment....
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #221,107
8/26/05 4:20:22 PM
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Clintonitis?
Maybe she thinks oral isn't sex? I've read that a lot of teenagers don't consider it to be.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #221,114
8/26/05 5:00:40 PM
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Agreed, this is odds on the case.
Even though I don't think The Clenis came up with the phrase "Eatin' aint cheatin'". I know I heard it used at least 20 years ago.
-----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.
--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
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Post #221,160
8/26/05 8:03:56 PM
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Not just teenagers think that.
A friend of mine at work was telling me about what her daughter (who graduated two years ago) said about the attitude at a major Indiana University. The prevalent thought there among seniors (22 - 24 year olds) was that oral sex wasn't really sex.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #221,163
8/26/05 8:13:33 PM
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and what age were they in 1998? :-)
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #221,110
8/26/05 4:54:46 PM
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The possibilty exists
that it may be a situation she will be too embarrassed to admit to and that you very well don't want to know about.
Best course is to re-affirm the lesson that she has just learned...softly...and ensure that she folows through with the normal course of treatments.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #221,115
8/26/05 5:05:37 PM
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What do you want to say?
Seems that you can get your message across (sans ACK) using a sort of I know that you know that I know what this is about and the takeaway from this you should have is "insert actual message here along with invitation for further engagement now or at any time in future".
Direct confrontation is unlikely to be successful - state your message/drop food for thought and wait.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #221,119
8/26/05 5:15:53 PM
8/26/05 5:39:44 PM
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Time to leave a book or two around the house.
Education. Education. Education.
Find a few appropriate books on the subject and leave them about casually. (Might even want to leave a book cover nearby as well for modesty's sake.)
Can guarantee that mouse will take the bait. Then, as suggested earlier, wait for the kid to bring it up.
Point now is, it don't matter how she gots it. Point is she gots it, now what.
Worry about the cause until the shock has worn off a bit.
Thank God, she's not preggers.
Peace,
Amy
btw, how old is daughter? what grade is she in?
" I tend to believe the great voices of peace throughout history {were} right, and this voice from this little hamlet here in Texas is absolutely wrong. The world is watching what you do here. It is important that you be calm, that you be peaceful, but you be firm. My grandmother {used to} say, \ufffdFight them \ufffdtil hell freezes over, and when hell freezes over, fight them on the ice.\ufffd
Dallas Reverend Peter Johnson, former staff member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
Edited by imqwerky
Aug. 26, 2005, 05:39:44 PM EDT
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Post #221,214
8/27/05 11:04:37 AM
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I'm with Amy. This is a great time for education
I would try to lessen the "gross out factor". After all, a disease is a disease- no need to get judgmental about how she contracted it. And as far as STD's go- this one aint so bad. She was lucky. Now is the time to talk to her about preventing something like this from happening in the future. She got sick. She needs to know how to stay healthy. She needs to know what behaviors can cause and prevent contracting an STD. She needs to understand the consequences of unprotected sex- including pregnancy and aids. Providing education does not mean you're condoning her behavior. If she cant handle hearing this from you, maybe there is another trusted adult in or life she can talk to. Or an objective/nonjudgmental adult- ie the clinic staff, might be even better.
About Mom- IMO, I think she needs to know. How can you keep this from her? How would she feel if she found out that you were hiding this from her? This can lead to more messy issues. Fact is, you are both parents and you are a team and you both need to handle this together. That's what I think, anyway.
Good luck to you. I just had the sex talk with my 10 yo son this week. He looked at me with a blank expression, said "oh" and continued watching Dukes of Hazzard on TV. I dont think I have to worry about this one for quite a while.
Yesterday when I was picking up the kids from school I saw a used condom on the playground. The school is on a cul de sac- so it's a prime spot for parking. I was walking with a Dad when I saw it- "You pick it up". "Im not gonna pick it up, you pick it up" "Well, we cant have the kids seeing it- you pick it up". "No. I'm not touching that thing". "Well someone needs to pick it up". We went and got the principal. I figure that's why they pay him the big money. He can pick it up.
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Post #221,128
8/26/05 5:36:27 PM
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simple
yer lucky you didnt get knocked up and no you dont need total penetration to get it. Use a rubber every time a penis hits the air. Whoever gave it to you got it from someone else, think about that. Maddog the boyfriend when you see him. No advice on the wife though,
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #221,162
8/26/05 8:12:35 PM
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bad assumption
it may be girl ongirl experimentation rubbers will not assist. Just a straight forward you get that from vaginal/penile contact, no other way, use a precaution and realize whoever gave it to you got it elsewhere so you might want to rethink the relationship.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #221,141
8/26/05 6:12:18 PM
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Chlamydia can be carried other ways
The bacterium that causes Chlamydia is known as Chlamydia trachomatis, this bacterium can infect other parts of the body and be carried in several other ways. Check out the [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlamydia_trachomatis|http://en.wikipedia....mydia_trachomatis] and [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlamydia|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlamydia] page for some details.
Chlamydia is the term for it when it is an infection of the sexual organs. It is possible to get it through means other then sexual transmission, but it is unlikely.
As for what to do. I would take her back to the clinic, she can go alone or with you depending. But you really need to pin this down and get it treated.
Jay
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Post #221,158
8/26/05 7:17:59 PM
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Go with her to the clinic.
(My $0.02, but it's probably not worth that much as it's just advice from a theoretical perspective....)
Don't be overt about telling your wife about it yet. She needs someone she can trust and you're it. Let her decide when/how she tells her mom.
Go with her to the clinic so that it gets treated and you know how she's supposed to care for it.
Amy makes some good suggestions but be discrete until your wife is on the same page.
Once things settle down, impress upon her the risks of her behavior. Somehow. :-(
Best of luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #221,159
8/26/05 7:28:30 PM
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I just asked my wife
Her immediate reaction was, She's having sex. She has chlamydia of the throat? That's not normal flora for there, she had oral sex.This is not meant as medical advice, but... My personal approach would be to be straightforward. Something like: Let me level with you. I'm not 5. I don't believe in Santa. I don't believe in the tooth fairy. And I don't believe in miracles.
You were engaged in sexual activity. Perhaps not vaginal sex, but you got intimate with someone's private parts. If you try to tell me otherwise, I'll know that you lie. Stupidly.
Now I'm not going to go tattling to your mom. And I'm not going to ask details. But I'm going to tell you straight out that you were lucky - you have something that is easily cured. Maybe you won't ever be able to have kids. If you get it treated promptly, you'll improve your odds there. But it could just have easily been something that would kill you.
I like you. I want to see you live. And I want to have an in depth conversation about how to keep you alive when you are willing to listen.
Then bug her every day or 3 about when she's going to have that conversation that she needs. An incidental fact. A lot of kids think that the medications that we have for AIDS is a cure. They're wrong. At great expense and with many side-effects, you're kept alive for quite a while. But even with everything that we have, you'll die in the end. And nothing that I know of promises that there will ever be a cure. Good luck, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #221,161
8/26/05 8:10:37 PM
8/26/05 8:12:03 PM
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As the father of two girls,one that just started high school
I have absolutely no idea. But one thing I believe I would consider is telling her (if you believe this) that you think you she should let her mother know, but the decision to tell her is absolutely hers and hers alone. You can think of it as cover, if you wish. But, if you don't tell your wife and nothing is ever said to her, it seems to me that you'd be in better standing with your wife if you told her you had left the decision to tell her up to your daughter. I agree with everything said above and would only add that if you tell her that you'll leave the decision to tell your wife up to her, that she is going to by-God talk to either you or her mother about it. And then, I'd take the suggestions in this thread about telling her in a non-threatening way that she's lucky to have learned this lesson without suffering any permanent damage.
Please keep in mind the fact that I am totally unqualified to offer advice when you are reading the above.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Edited by mmoffitt
Aug. 26, 2005, 08:12:03 PM EDT
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Post #221,192
8/27/05 12:07:07 AM
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How old is your daughter?
" I tend to believe the great voices of peace throughout history {were} right, and this voice from this little hamlet here in Texas is absolutely wrong. The world is watching what you do here. It is important that you be calm, that you be peaceful, but you be firm. My grandmother {used to} say, \ufffdFight them \ufffdtil hell freezes over, and when hell freezes over, fight them on the ice.\ufffd
Dallas Reverend Peter Johnson, former staff member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
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Post #221,193
8/27/05 12:47:10 AM
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#207935.
[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=207935|#207935]. Just my guess on her being the right one though.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #221,197
8/27/05 2:11:48 AM
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Thanks, Scott :-)
" I tend to believe the great voices of peace throughout history {were} right, and this voice from this little hamlet here in Texas is absolutely wrong. The world is watching what you do here. It is important that you be calm, that you be peaceful, but you be firm. My grandmother {used to} say, \ufffdFight them \ufffdtil hell freezes over, and when hell freezes over, fight them on the ice.\ufffd
Dallas Reverend Peter Johnson, former staff member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
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Post #221,199
8/27/05 2:23:32 AM
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Re: How old is your daughter?
Old enough to be utterly mortified should she ever find out that her stepdad has been discussing her sex life on the internet, I wot.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #221,201
8/27/05 3:30:31 AM
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But young enough...
to be similarly mortified to realize that the same stepdad has a sex life as well.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #221,213
8/27/05 10:44:22 AM
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Ewwwwww!
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Post #221,237
8/27/05 4:36:23 PM
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:-D
" I tend to believe the great voices of peace throughout history {were} right, and this voice from this little hamlet here in Texas is absolutely wrong. The world is watching what you do here. It is important that you be calm, that you be peaceful, but you be firm. My grandmother {used to} say, \ufffdFight them \ufffdtil hell freezes over, and when hell freezes over, fight them on the ice.\ufffd
Dallas Reverend Peter Johnson, former staff member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
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Post #221,242
8/27/05 5:13:05 PM
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Scott was correct. 16 almost 17.
Now she says, maybe the doctor said syphillis. As is stated in first post, clinic won't discuss it with mom or me. Only way is if daughter is willing to go to clinic and invite mom or me in with her. Or I'll have to send daughter back to have doctor write out what it is for her. Which one in more like to have the treatment be a single dose of antibiotics?
And she is still insisting that she's never had sex.
As for discussing with mom, I'm in a no win. Daughter will have to bring it up, which i will encourage her to do.
Thanks for all the comments.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #221,245
8/27/05 5:29:10 PM
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Treatment
Syphilis can be treated with a single injection of penicillin if the person has been infected less than a year. Chlamydia is normally treated with a single oral dose of azithromycin or a 7 day course of doxycycline. Did she get a script yet?
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Post #221,288
8/28/05 7:12:53 AM
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single oral dose of azithromycin
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #221,294
8/28/05 10:11:56 AM
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Re: single oral dose of azithromycin
There's your answer. It was caught early. She'll be fine.
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Post #221,255
8/27/05 7:09:26 PM
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You are about to destroy your marraige
If you do not discuss this with your wife she will NEVER trust you again.
This is her baby, her little girl, her perfect little angel.
Yeah, I know, all a crock, but the key issue is that by being a step father you are GRANTED certain rights and priviledges in dealing with HER children.
If you know something so important that it requires medical treatment, and is behaviour based, which means you will need to deal with it in the future, and you do no tell her, this means you are removing her ability to save her little girl.
You are in the really crappy position of having to declare an allegiance that will possibly burn down a bridge.
Sorry.
Tell the wife.
Her trust in you is more important than her daughter's trust in you. You gotta figure if you piss off the daghter so bad by telling the wife that she makes your life hell, you know it will only be a few years before she's out of the house. On the other hand, the second your wife does not trust you, divorce or suicide look like decent alternatives.
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Post #221,257
8/27/05 7:25:24 PM
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Brutal, but honest
I didn't say anything about telling your wife. I agree with Barry, although he is a bit extreme in presentation ;-).
You and wife are to be considered one unit. That is what marriage is all about. No, she is not going to like hearing the truth and hopefully, she won't shoot the messenger. But you are just that, the messenger, not the perpetrator.
By leveling with her about what is going on, you are 1)bolstering the trust factor with her and 2) showing her that you care about her kid. I don't think any rational mother would be upset about her husband demonstrating such noble causes.
I know that if something like this were going on, I would want to know about it and I'd rather hear it from my husband than through the grapevine. The focus is about the kid, not mom.
Hopefully, she won't freak out, but with some coaching on your part (i.e., telling her that you told daughter to talk to mom), she will be patient and allow this thing to follow its natural course. Above all things,
think positive! A good attitude about the whole mess sets the tone for actions.
If everybody is panicking, it will only be a traumatic experience for all concerned. If yall can keep cool and unemotional, then logic will prevail and lessons will be learned.
Just remember to act like a cop. They state the facts, treat you with respect (more often than not) and give a just punishment to the offense. If you can do that, then all of you will emerge from this with a deeper respect for each other and even a new level of communication where none existed previously.
Good luck and I'll be praying for you.
Peace,
Amy
" I tend to believe the great voices of peace throughout history {were} right, and this voice from this little hamlet here in Texas is absolutely wrong. The world is watching what you do here. It is important that you be calm, that you be peaceful, but you be firm. My grandmother {used to} say, \ufffdFight them \ufffdtil hell freezes over, and when hell freezes over, fight them on the ice.\ufffd
Dallas Reverend Peter Johnson, former staff member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
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Post #221,273
8/27/05 11:38:46 PM
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Want to know why the clinic will not discuss?
Patient confidentiality.
As soon as you're talking about sex or drugs, your minor is emancipated and the conversation does not go to the parents.
I can think of two good reasons for this. One is that sex and drug issues may be tied into family problems (eg child abuse) where the parents are the problem. The other is that often kids have issues discussing these topics with their parents. From a medical point of view it is more important to be able to have an honest conversation with the kid than to keep the parents informed. The conversation often won't happen if the kid has to worry about what mom and dad will say, so mom and dad won't be told.
I'm not sure if there are more reasons, or if I'm guessing the right ones, but as a matter of policy, medical discussions with kids about sex and drugs do not get discussed with the parents.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #221,275
8/27/05 11:43:50 PM
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rightfully so for the safety of the child
however in the case of a minor(depending on the age of consent in the state in question) should have a "in loco parentis" appointed by local authority to discuss inteligently with the chid what is going on. This person could be loosely associated or a member of clinic staff so the kid is clearly informed. A simple "each office that treats children will have an appointed, knowledgable person who will discuss frankly the cause and results of disease and tratment. Such a person shall keep a written log of when they met the child and for how long. " dont want to keep notes, they can be subpoena'd
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #221,296
8/28/05 10:26:52 AM
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I understand the reasoning behind all this
but it can also send the wrong messages to kids. It tells the kids they've done something so terrible that it requires protection from their parents. There is an underlying assumption that parents are going to go ballistic. It places more stigma on the behavior, making the kids more ashamed and more afraid to approach their parents. And it also sends the message to parents that their kids are deviants and require protection from an outside source.
This policy of confidentiality contributes to the problem that it is supposed to be addressing. It's a sticky wicket.
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Post #221,303
8/28/05 12:29:40 PM
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I agree
But I think the doctors should approach the parent and say "Now, don't freak out, but..." and offer some tips to the parent(s) for handling the situation. That way, there is some "training" involved that will encourage communication with the child and not turn it into some kind of finger-pointing.
I think most parents would take a loving, concerned approach. It's the redneck, uneducated parents that would start with the name-calling and blame-throwing.
Unless I am just totally naive. :-/
Peace,
Amy
" I tend to believe the great voices of peace throughout history {were} right, and this voice from this little hamlet here in Texas is absolutely wrong. The world is watching what you do here. It is important that you be calm, that you be peaceful, but you be firm. My grandmother {used to} say, \ufffdFight them \ufffdtil hell freezes over, and when hell freezes over, fight them on the ice.\ufffd
Dallas Reverend Peter Johnson, former staff member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
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Post #221,312
8/28/05 3:00:49 PM
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try punch throwing, not blame throwing not confined to
rednecks, hell most rednecks were scoring off their cousins younger than 16. It would be the uptight religeous nuts like this [link|http://www.rickross.com/groups/house.html|http://www.rickross....groups/house.html] that you need to be afraid of.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #221,446
8/29/05 2:20:23 PM
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Puh-LEEZE, Amy...Who you crappin'?!?
But I think the doctors should approach the parent and say "Now, don't freak out, but..." read: "I'm about to tell you something you won't want to hear, and it's all but guaranteed to piss you off. Oh, and its about your daughter, whom you still think is as pure as the driven snow, but as it turns out is actually somewhere between basic promiscuous and a total slut. But don't take it personally, and just sit there calmly while I proceed to skewer evey last pretense about your daughter's, and your, moral standards." Yeah, comma, right! jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #221,497
8/29/05 6:17:50 PM
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Now wait a gosh darn minute, boyo!
The days of "Ol' Doc So-and-so" are gone. Doctors nowadays give the facts straight up, with little or no value judgement attached. I don't know what kind of backwater town you live in, but here in the Mighty Metroplex, doctors just give you the straight scoop. And they don't editorialize whilst they are doin' it. Hence, my comment.
I know I am more likely to have a doctor that says,"Now, don't get your shorts in a wad, but..." , than a doctor who hurls epithets at my kid for their promiscuity.
If I did have a doc like the latter, my words to him/her would be like The Donald's..."You're Fired!"
As a matter of fact, I have fired a doctor because of her inconsideration with regards to a child of mine. My daughter was having a series of UTI's. She has always had a phobia of doctors and this one had the gall to suggest my daughter had been molested...IN FRONT OF MY 8 YO DAUGHTER! It was totally unprofessional and only served to heighten my daughter's phobia.
The appropriate action would have been for her to usher me into her private office and discuss the matter. Nevermind the fact that my daughter has never been molested, the issue was from my daughter's improper hygiene technique...which was rememdied by instruction on the proper way to wipe.
When told of this heinous action, other doctors shudder with disbelief at the callousness of the situation, which leads me to believe that the bad ones are in the minority. We just happened to have one of the bad ones...cancelled out by the myriad good ones.
So,the argument becomes "What type of relationship do you have with your doctor?" rather than "You're Whistlin' Dixie at Yankee Stadium if you think your doctor won't editorialize." Believe it or not, there are plenty of doctors who don't even want to go there for fear of a slander/defamation of character lawsuit.
How 'bout them apples?
Take a piece o' one,
Amy
" I tend to believe the great voices of peace throughout history {were} right, and this voice from this little hamlet here in Texas is absolutely wrong. The world is watching what you do here. It is important that you be calm, that you be peaceful, but you be firm. My grandmother {used to} say, \ufffdFight them \ufffdtil hell freezes over, and when hell freezes over, fight them on the ice.\ufffd
Dallas Reverend Peter Johnson, former staff member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
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Post #221,586
8/30/05 10:52:12 AM
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Get to the source of the problem..
There are fewer and fewer generalists out there chiefly because that ain't where the money is and money is the real motivator for physicians. Back in the 70's a lot of people hated the way they were treated by physicians at Kaiser because Kaiser physicians didn't have time to get to know their patients or their families. Now days, with the overwhelming majority of clinicians more concerned with private wealth than public health, most physicians operate like Kaiser physicians: churn, baby, churn, gotta see enough patients today to pay for my kids private schools, my country club memberships, my multi-million dollar home, my chalet, my beach house, etc. ad nauseum.
That's why we have this predicament with kids. If the physican actually had time to get to know his wealth generators (read patients) and their families, the physician could use his own judgement about whether or not anything should be said to the parents. But time is money and practicing medicine is almost exclusively about the acquisition of wealth for the clinician. The days when your physician actually knew or cared about your family (except for how much money they could make from you) are gone forever. Patients are "consumers of healthcare" in the modern paradigm, and physicians are merely hawkers.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #221,650
8/30/05 2:29:52 PM
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There's that literary device again...
If the physican actually had time to get to know his wealth generators (read patients) and their families, the physician could use his own judgement about whether or not anything should be said to the parents. I hope that now you know how to interpret this sentence, Amy. ;-) jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #221,697
8/30/05 6:35:36 PM
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But he'd spell it 'judgment'.. Oh! those Idiom-thingies
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Post #221,649
8/30/05 2:26:51 PM
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Apparently, there is a literary style in use here...
...with which you are unfamiliar. Sorry bout that. Let me try to explain without using that [link|#literarydevice|literary device]. When someone in a position of authority, who has (or potentially has) information that can be unpleasant to listen to, prefaces his/her statement with something along the lines of, "Don't freak out, but...", you are immediately keyed to expect the worst. It has been my experience (on both ends of such a statement — which is why I don't preface my remarks so) that once so conditioned, the purported listener actually stops actively listening, and starts racing ahead filling in the spaces between the words with mind noise twinged with the coloring of the aforementioned worst. So when the doctor in your scenario starts out with, "Don't freak out, but...",what is really happening is that the doctor is conditioning the recipient of the bad news about his daughter to freak out, with negative effects to both the immediate problem at hand (the curing of the disease) and the long term relationship with the daughter ("You promiscuous slut...your grounded until you're 30!"). My response, girlo, is to your simpleminded, almost pollyannaish approach to something that needs anything except a simpleminded, pollyannish approach. Clear?
The "literary device" I was referring to is the use of the word "read:" (with the colon), followed by a translation of the target phrase into what the phrase is supposed to mean to someone when they read it. I'm sorry if you were unaware of the device; I hope this explanation makes my previous post more clear.jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #221,654
8/30/05 2:52:42 PM
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Bite me, asshole (new thread)
Created as new thread #221653 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=221653|Bite me, asshole]
" I tend to believe the great voices of peace throughout history {were} right, and this voice from this little hamlet here in Texas is absolutely wrong. The world is watching what you do here. It is important that you be calm, that you be peaceful, but you be firm. My grandmother {used to} say, \ufffdFight them \ufffdtil hell freezes over, and when hell freezes over, fight them on the ice.\ufffd
Dallas Reverend Peter Johnson, former staff member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
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Post #221,320
8/28/05 6:07:47 PM
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Well said.
Maybe the clearest summation I've seen (and I've read a few.. until wearied with the blatherscape that so often surrounds, renders unuseable, much legislation dealing with social-dumbth :(
In a society which virtually-Runs on the daily euphemism (I gotta tinkle) and via its Puritan roots: one utterly FUCKED re anything whatsoever to do with bodily functions -- there shall be no surcease from (kinda like the Windows-OS?) add-on patchwork -- all in well-meaning efforts to somehow address the Situation.
Good Luck to those in the middle of a Situation; may they run into a Laura or Critter & Co. and not some Righteous-based popinjay drunk with too much admin power, first. I do not think that the sort of conversations as occur here, happen very often for and with - the least-ept, who shall continue with: Humiliation first, Blame second.. and assuredly Trauma, too bloody-often also of the blunt- sort.
(Wish I were smart enough to conceive a way-around dogged, traditional farmily-dumbth - as might be effectively applied, in brief-enough time span? But I'm not.)
Ashton
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Post #221,434
8/29/05 1:57:37 PM
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Just for the record
we do say "tinkle" in my house, although my son has begun to say "void" and gets a big kick out of saying "I voided 50 cc's". Makes him feel very clinical, I suppose.
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Post #221,354
8/29/05 7:19:49 AM
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It can but...
I've known people that this policy benefited. A lot.
I think that, on balance, it is a good thing.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #221,362
8/29/05 9:02:19 AM
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Another problem
They should make an exception once the parents ask. The justification for not informing parents is that some kids will not report if they think their parents will find out. I can buy that. But once the parents ask, they already know something is up.
Parents know what the types of things that could be wrong that they won't be told about. Now the message they're getting is, "Your child has a sexual or drug problem, but we won't tell you exactly what." Assuming the parents we're worried about are the ones who are going to overreact, does this sound like an answer designed to calm them down? Or does it sound like license to speculate their own worst-cast scenario?
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #221,366
8/29/05 9:44:14 AM
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Thank you for expressing my thoughts
My daughter talked to me. She told me, but she wasn't sure what the nurse had told her (daughter has a comprehension/listening problem). I called the clinic and told them what my daughter had said. I even stated the assumed diagnosis. Nurse said she couldn't talk to me, but would gladly call my daughter again. That would have the same effect as repeating something LOUDER to someone who doesn't speak the language. Repeating and louder won't have any effect on comprehension.
Once clinic knows that child has talked to parent(s) information should be made available. I fully understand the need for confidentiality prior to child informing parents, but not after.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #221,423
8/29/05 12:15:18 PM
8/21/07 5:43:35 AM
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Should provide consult w/ both of you there
if minor asks.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #221,520
8/29/05 7:43:30 PM
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I still don't like it
First you're wrong about the message that the parents get. As it stands the message that they get is, We're not at liberty to discuss this topic. They neither get confirmation or denial that sex and drugs came up as issues. They get a big, blank slate. They don't get told, There is a problem, but we won't tell you what. They get told nothing.
Review the case in point. The child gave out the clue that there was a potential problem. Nothing that the clinic said gave that away.
Now your policy is basically an open invitation for suspicious parents to go on "fishing expeditions" to see if something is up. Which completely defeats the point of having confidentiality here in the first place.
Again, consider the case where the parents run a drug operation, or the child is being sexually abused by a parent. Do you really think that the parent should be told what the child said? And before you suggest that the policy be to restrict what is said in that case, be aware that this is a signal to the parent that their kid said something they shouldn't, and further the clinic may not know of the issue, but telling a seemingly innocuous detail to the parent might trigger rage.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #221,523
8/29/05 8:08:41 PM
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It's the dog that didn't bark
If I call the hospital and ask what they treated my minor daughter for, I'll hear one of three types of things:
1. We haven't treated your daughter.
2. We set a broken arm.
3. We can't tell you.
If I don't hear 1 or 2, I know it must be 3. And I know what the possible reasons are.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #221,524
8/29/05 8:13:42 PM
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Point. But...
all that the kid has to do is go in for 2 reasons. Then you'll hear all about the one that the kid wants you to hear about.
This works very well if the topic comes up during, say, a routine physical.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #221,534
8/29/05 9:37:15 PM
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then you ask who signed the consent to treat forms
unless its a planned parenthood clinic or a county std clinic, then you know what they are being treated for. Also if your insurance is dinged you have every right to see the records submitted for payment, then request the insurance not pay the claim until you have a diagnosis.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #221,580
8/30/05 10:34:57 AM
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Or, given the predilection physicians show for ...
electronic records and internet transfer of such, just hack it ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #221,350
8/29/05 5:37:25 AM
8/29/05 5:43:25 AM
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Re: Ok, how do I talk to my daughter?
I called the clinic. Nurse told me that she cannot discuss it with me (WTF, she's a minor child) and could call daughter back to discuss it further with her. So, no help in confirming the diagnosis.
\r\n\r\n FWIW, I used to do customer service at a health-insurance firm, and this is standard practice. The rules regarding what can be disclosed to whom and when are somewhat complex, but the best bet is to be both named on the policy and either A) a biological parent or B) have a recent HIPAA-compliant Authorization for Release on file naming you as someone who can access her health-care information. And even that isn't always enough for a diagnosis, because that's super double secret information that's protected above and beyond most other things. \r\n\r\n On the other hand, if you really desperately need to know without having mom get involved and you happen to have access to a copy of the receipt from the visit, there may be a numeric diagnosis code indicated on it which you could look up in the ICD-9 manual (the ICD coding system assigns five-digit numeric codes to pretty much any possible disease, accident or other condition, and is universally used in the US). For chlamydia you'll be looking for something in the 099.4-099.5 range. Located in the throat the most likely ICD-9 code would be 099.51. \r\n\r\n Edit: [link|http://www.dmi.columbia.edu/hripcsak/icd9/1tabular090.html|Here] is an online listing of ICD-9 codes for venereal diseases. Also, saw the post above about how they'll disclose if she invites you or mom to the clinic with her; that'd be best, since you'll get it straight from the source. Given the nature of the diagnosis, you won't get info any other way (I once got in a sticky situation with this where we handled a claim on a minor who'd attempted suicide by drug overdose and I was not permitted to disclose the reason for denial -- self-inflicted injuries are uncovered -- to the parents, who didn't want to admit that's what had happened) --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
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