Post #219,990
8/18/05 5:37:54 PM
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One more thing. Your attitude is scary.
One police fuckup resulting in one dead Brazilian and you're all excitable.
Really. Surely you're not implying that "one dead Brazilian" is okay, are you?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #219,997
8/18/05 6:14:54 PM
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When was the last time you demonstrated on behalf of someone
wrongly shot by a US police officer, is the point he's making I think.
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Post #219,998
8/18/05 6:32:25 PM
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Well...
...There was mayor Richard M. Daley's (father of the current mayor — often not-to-respectly referred to as "hizzoner") famous shoot-to-kill order in 1968... There were several demonstrations that that triggered...perhaps you may remember one particular dust-up that occurred around the time of a certain political convention?
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #220,047
8/18/05 11:16:46 PM
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Re: One more thing. Your attitude is scary.
There's a hundred thousand dead civilians in Iraq; a hundred thousand Jean Charles Menezes. Killed by UK and US ordnance, for the most part.
Three thousand Jean Charles Menezes die every year on the UK's roads; mostly due to bad driving. Forty-three thousand Jean Charles Menezes die every year on the highways of the USA, again, I'll wager, mostly due to bad driving.
Thirty-two thousand Jean Charles Menezes die every year in the USA, killed by guns, be it accidental or not.
Since 2001, more than seventy Jean Charles Menezes have died in police custody in the USA.
My point?
My point is that yes, Jean Charles Menezes died at the hands of the police, and was, it seems, innocent. This is a terrible tragedy and deserves a full and proper investigation, with those responsible brought to account. And this is being done.
But to go from "one man shot dead wrongly by police" to "The UK is now some kind of hellhole" is, frankly, silly.
Peter
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Post #220,048
8/18/05 11:18:41 PM
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pay attention marlowe you might learn something
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
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Post #220,049
8/18/05 11:22:09 PM
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Thanks, I think...
Peter
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Post #220,086
8/19/05 9:18:01 AM
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Again, a mischaracterization.
But to go from "one man shot dead wrongly by police" to "The UK is now some kind of hellhole" is, frankly, silly.
A guy in an alley who reaches for his cell phone and the cop thinks he's grabbing a gun and shoots him - THAT is a tragic accident. Cops holding a guy down and pumping 7 rounds into the guy's head is a little more than an accident. The fact that it can be dismissed as "oh, well, that'll happen when we're all trying be kept safe" is, I think, not what the majority here would think or say. That is what I meant by "the UK is more fucked up than we are". It's not my position that the UK is "some kind of hellhole." It is my position - come to by observing the event, the reaction to it and even reading your posts - that the majority of UK'ers are more willing to sacrifice human rights than I thought was possible to gain a little temporary safety.
We are different. For example, NO politician here - not even our Neocons - would survive even mentioning support for a shoot-to-kill policy. In the UK, it seems, such a position for a politician is not only tolerated but actually supported. That makes us different to say the least.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #220,088
8/19/05 9:43:13 AM
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Goes to show you: Ben Franklin wasn't a Brit...
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #220,089
8/19/05 9:50:44 AM
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;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #220,115
8/19/05 11:58:17 AM
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Shoot to kill is fine, in the USA
As long as those being shot at are innocent Iraqis who get the living fuck shot out of them by US troops.
Take your rose tinted specs off.
Peter
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Post #220,120
8/19/05 12:54:44 PM
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Excuse me, but can you give me a linky to...
...instances of innocent Iraqis being shot on American soil by an American policeman?
(Or do I need to get all CRCish on yer mother-tongue-speaking ass?)
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #220,123
8/19/05 1:07:38 PM
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You keep your tongue away from my ass
s/in the USA/with the USA/ but anyway:
[link|http://www.commondreams.org/pressreleases/september99/090299b.htm|http://www.commondre...ber99/090299b.htm]
12 hollowpoint bullets for one poor headcase with a hammer.
[link|http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510392000?open&of=ENG-USA|http://web.amnesty.o...0?open&of=ENG-USA]
Unarmed, no criminal record, deader than corduroy.
[link|http://www.courttv.com/archive/national/diallo/chronology.html|http://www.courttv.c...o/chronology.html]
Unarmed, no criminal record, probably a bit deader than the other two on account of the 41 bullets fired at him.
[link|http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=9310252&src=rss/domesticNews|http://go.reuters.co...=rss/domesticNews]
Accidents will happen, I suppose. But she had cocaine in her bloodstream, so she probably had it coming.
Peter
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Post #220,131
8/19/05 1:46:42 PM
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Hmmmm...not an Iraqi in the bunch. Thanks for playing....
jb4
shrub\ufffd\ufffd\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #220,135
8/19/05 2:30:34 PM
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You're being intentionally obtuse here.
It's not working very well, imho.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #220,156
8/19/05 5:11:23 PM
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I rather don't think so
It was peter's assertion that we're running around here blasting "innocent Iraqis" off the face of the continent, as an explicit national policy. He provided links, purported to support this absurd assertion. I pointed out that the links had fuckall to do with that assertion. And I'm being obtuse.
Anything you say, Jake...anything you say.
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #220,157
8/19/05 5:15:25 PM
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s/continent/planet/
As noted in my post.
Peter
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Post #220,160
8/19/05 5:25:30 PM
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Ididn't know the USA constituted the whole planet!
Shoot to kill is fine, in the USA
As long as those being shot at are innocent Iraqis who get the living fuck shot out of them by US troops. Try parsing that sentence from your post. If you speak English, you'll see that the assertion is that innocent Iraqis are getting hte living fuck shot out of them by US Troops, in the USA. Now go dangle your modifiers somewhere else, goddammit! jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #220,161
8/19/05 5:27:12 PM
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Re: Ididn't know the USA constituted the whole planet!
"s/in the USA/with the USA/ but anyway:"
Peter
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Post #220,264
8/20/05 9:07:49 PM
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I can parse that for you:
"Shoot to kill is fine, in the USA" == "Shoot-to-kill is considered a fine policy, in the USA" == It's in the USA that the *considering* is done.
So, "Shoot-to-kill *Iraqis in Iraq* is, in the USA, considered a fine policy" == "Shoot-to-kill Iraqis in Iraq is considered a fine policy, in the USA" == "Shoot to kill is fine, in the USA".
So Peter's original unedited sentence *CAN* very fucking well be read as applying to shooting Iraqis in Iraq.
FYI, FWIW, QED, HTH, and all that. (No YMMV, though. 'Coz if it did, it'd be wrong.)
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #220,360
8/21/05 10:36:37 PM
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Mah-noor!
And you can take your dangling modifiers and get your ass and Peter's out of my yard.
You see, the double-equals in your equation are badly misplaced.
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #220,378
8/22/05 3:08:40 AM
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Your noor, indeed, not mahn. They're placed *exactly* right.
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Post #220,401
8/22/05 9:30:40 AM
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And all this time, I was amazed at your mastery...
...of what was for you a foreign language. I see now that my admiration was somewhat misplaced.
FYI, the word "fine" does not mean "is considered a fine policy", at least in English (and to the best of my limited experience, not in German either; I don't know Finnish, so YMMV.)
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #220,407
8/22/05 10:20:57 AM
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The question wasn't about the WORD, "fine"...
...but the PHRASE, "is fine". Here are some varations on it:
- "Whaddayamean, Grelzakianism 'is fine'?"
- "Well, Grelzakianism is fine with me!"
- "Grelzakianism might 'be fine' where *you* live... But not here."
- "What, is Grelzakianism not fine in Finland?!?"
- "That's funny; Grelzakianism is perfectly fine in the USA."
So, you're saying the prase "is fine" in this fictional conversation is NOT about how "Grelzakianism" (whatever the fuck that may be; say, a policy) is regarded?!?
And here *I* had been reasonably... Well, let's say, satisfied -- with *your* grasp of English. But now I see that *my* impression may have been somewhat exaggerated.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #220,138
8/19/05 3:18:00 PM
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Point being...
...if the US police doesn't actually have a shoot-to-kill policy, it certainly bloody well looks like it.
Peter
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Post #220,141
8/19/05 3:20:59 PM
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its more a shoot in the general direction of the subject
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #220,147
8/19/05 3:49:17 PM
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The difference is we insist on cause.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #220,164
8/19/05 6:05:53 PM
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if they are as dark as that brazillian that is cause
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #220,299
8/21/05 1:12:44 PM
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And when that happens, riots ensue.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #220,136
8/19/05 2:38:00 PM
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Interesting choice that third one.
Feb. 7: Hundreds of people turn out for a rally outside Diallo's modest two-story building in the Soundview section of the South Bronx, the first of a growing series of protests. Hundreds of people protesting in a growing series of protests three days after the event. It's been what? Three weeks since the London murder? How many folks in the street in London over this? Any way you slice it, the actions of the police on that day in London are clearly acceptable to the majority there. qed. bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #220,137
8/19/05 3:06:15 PM
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If it validates your worldview.
I give up.
You've made up your mind. "Clearly acceptable", when it's "clearly" nothing of the sort.
But you keep on believing whatever it is you need to believe about whomsoever you need to believe it.
[link|http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=usa+police+shooting&btnG=Search|http://www.google.co...oting&btnG=Search]
Do SOME research, please. What's the top result?
(Clue: "Outrage grows in England over mistaken police killing", USA Today)
Peter
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Post #220,177
8/19/05 7:27:42 PM
8/19/05 7:36:08 PM
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ICLRPD
You keep your tongue away from my ass /me shakes head violently to remove mental image! Peace? Amy Yeah, yeah. I screwed it up again. One of these days I won't have such a greasy trigger finger. :-P
"The notion of limited government and frugal government has been shattered by this administration, which cares far less about limited government than it does in building conservative government - a government with huge payoffs to corporate America," Allan Lichtman, a presidential historian at American University in Washington.
Edited by imqwerky
Aug. 19, 2005, 07:36:08 PM EDT
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