Not really my point

Post #217,999 by bepatient 8/7/05 5:14:02 PM Reply	Not really my point And I know it was only remotely associated with this current debate. Is it that is should NEVER be taught. The rabid left says yes, regardless of which particular class its actual taught in, the rabid right want it to be in science taught as fact which is likely not the answer either. In the end, we lose site of the fact that it doesn't really matter cause Johnny can't read anyway and probably can't add double digit numbers without a calculator. But the Super of the school district has a really nice beemer. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #218,004 by Another Scott 8/7/05 5:33:55 PM Reply	OK... I hate to say it, but you're getting into marlowe territory. :-( As you said, nobody has yet brought up these issues, and you're doing it without specifics. In the end, we lose site of the fact that it doesn't really matter cause Johnny can't read anyway and probably can't add double digit numbers without a calculator. But it does matter. And you know that. E.g. [link\|http://www.phila.k12.pa.us/offices/ceo/emails/072604.html\|reading scores in Philadelphia are improving]. Throwing up our hands and saying, "it doesn't matter," just leaves the problems and the system to those who are willing to invest their time and energy. To those who have an interest, vested or otherwise. Science cannot be done by throwing up our hands and saying "I can't figure out how this was done, therefore it's impossible to figure out, therefore God did it." ID isn't science and in fact it poisons science teaching if it's taken seriously. It's letting [link\|http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm\|the proofs of God's existence] become public policy. This country is based on public education for very good reasons. We are all poorer if we let our public education system be taken over by those pushing a religious agenda. Cheers, Scott.
Post #218,009 by bepatient 8/7/05 5:58:46 PM Reply	You're still arguing the specific and this particular situation, as much as you want to argue it on the merits, doesn't really matter. It is a debate about such a minor issue in the "grand scheme" as to be laughable. Bush says "we should let them learn it to encourage debate" while at the same time saying "but what I say shouldn't matter as the curriculum should be chosen by the individual school boards". Hark, the "Right" is trying to force your children to learn about >gawd<...that mass delusion that civilization has been grappling with for thousands of years!! Oh my, we need to have massive public debate about this...but when it comes time for me to vote in my local school board election...it just slipped my mind that a few hundred kids get shot every year when going to school...and conditions are worse in some city schools than they are for all prisoners in the state. But lets debate intelligent design. Degrees of importance, my friend. This pales in comparison. >In my opinion<. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #218,012 by Another Scott 8/7/05 6:13:33 PM Reply	Ok, clear enough. But it's not an either/or situation. All of us worry about lots of things every day. Some more important than others. Some more immediate than others. Remember that .sig from [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/user?userid=415\|flatboy2016]? It's the one that quotes [link\|http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Mead\|Margaret Mead]: Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. It cuts both ways. I'd prefer not to have the IDers win by default. Cheers, Scott.
Post #218,016 by bepatient 8/7/05 6:23:12 PM Reply	I know, I know but it seems the only time I hear a conversation about this subject its about some stupid "zero tolerance" policy or about ID being taught in schools. Just over-sensitive I suppose. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #218,013 by boxley 8/7/05 6:17:00 PM Reply	now we have the religious teaching science hows about math? [link\|http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/package.jsp?name=fte/resurrection/resurrection\|http://cnn.netscape....tion/resurrection] # The probably of God's existence is one in two. That is, God either exists or doesn't. # The probability that God became incarnate, that is embodied in human form, is also one in two. # The evidence for God's existence is an argument for the resurrection. # The chance of Christ's resurrection not being reported by the gospels has a probability of one in 10. # Considering all these factors together, there is a one in 1,000 chance that the resurrection is not true now all we need to do is translate that into spanish, thanx, bill Just call me Mr. Lynch \\ Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #218,015 by bepatient 8/7/05 6:21:41 PM Reply	chuckle If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #218,017 by imqwerky 8/7/05 6:42:39 PM Reply	Box, I didn't get to talk to you much at the Beepbash. My loss. :( To paraphrase a line from Sling Blade, "Ah lahk thuh way yew thaink." ;-D BTW, I still say, the power of the mind is unfathomable. That is to say, therein resides "divinity". There is a difference between the physical brain and the metaphysical mind. If someone can will themselves into a trance that essentially slows the heartrate and breathing to nothing at will, cannot that same mind overcome death? Something to think about. Peace, Friend, Amy PS, Being a PTA pres., I am going to battle over the travesty that is Texas' lack of funding for public education. Check out the rise of the common (wo)man: [link\|http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/3298816\|http://www.chron.com...l/outlook/3298816] Illegitimi non corborundum.
Post #218,049 by boxley 8/7/05 10:41:06 PM Reply	I got sidetracked with arkidy, and jimbo's family Just call me Mr. Lynch \\ Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #218,040 by Another Scott 8/7/05 9:29:14 PM Reply	That shows why professors of philosophy shouldn't do math. To see why: 1) The probability that I have $1B is 1 in 2. I either do or I don't. 2) Similarly, the probability that I am irresistible to women is 1 in 2. 3) Also, the probability that my minions will elect me benevolent dictator for life is 1 in 2. 3) Finally, the probability that I will live to be 10,237 years old is 1 in 2. Combining these shows that Richard Swinburne is an idiot when it comes to doing mathematics. The fact that a question can be expressed as having a True or False answer doesn't mean that each answer is equally likely. Sheesh. Cheers, Scott.
Post #218,036 by Ashton 8/7/05 8:53:19 PM 8/7/05 8:54:57 PM Reply	Let's look at that 'degrees of importance' a tad - In a (some say.. terminally) mentally-lazy culture, one demonstrably influenced by the most banal or tawdry advertainment - Slogans Rule. Dismissing their effect from some lofty tower of 'reason' - is to demonstrate that one's Importance-list is similarly skewed, maybe. As George Orwell observed (since it doesn't matter what I observe) Corrupt language -- inflated imagery, stale metaphors, meaningless words -- corrupts thought. Of course too, if the schools are of the same high calibre as the 'adult' infotainment, then the early warnings to the tykes about the stupidity of slogans and other lies: might be even More important than just making sure their Glocks are properly loaded, and the spare ammo is in its usual place next to the Ho Hos in the lunch box. Our call, as goes the latest sloganeering. Edited by Ashton Aug. 7, 2005, 08:54:57 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #218,044 by bepatient 8/7/05 9:38:53 PM Reply	Is that what that was? Where's that damned babelfish when I need it? If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #218,061 by pwhysall 8/8/05 1:46:53 AM Reply	Left, Right, Left, Right, Left, Right All my soldiers, march with me!</chemical_brothers> I didn't think you would fall into the trap of thinking there's a left wing in American politics, Bill. The "rabid left", as you put it, is just what the slightly more right-wingers call the slightly less right-wingers. Because from where I'm sitting, your "rabid left" would make Michael Howard seem like Arthur Scargill. (GIYF) Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #218,063 by Ashton 8/8/05 2:15:17 AM Reply	Well, when ya parse everythin into Opposites.. it's ez.
Post #218,082 by bepatient 8/8/05 9:02:29 AM Reply	Yes Peter. You know I understand this. Forgive me for using such coloquial viewpoints for sake of simplicity. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #218,075 by jb4 8/8/05 8:44:50 AM Reply	Teach it in a Philosophy class Along with the creation myths of Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and, <gasp!> Islam! Yeah...Like that's ever going to happen... jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #218,076 by boxley 8/8/05 8:54:02 AM Reply	well Islam_LD_LIBDIR=$Israeli_RUN_LIBDIR Just call me Mr. Lynch \\ Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #218,085 by bepatient 8/8/05 9:06:48 AM Reply	Why not? My daughter was taught and was required to do several class projects on the subject of "cultural" differences between Jewish, Muslim, Catholic. Holiday differences, complete with backround. In public school. Maybe my daughter is now at risk of converting to Islam. They said that word in school. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #218,116 by jb4 8/8/05 1:42:36 PM Reply	Cool...Got no problem with that... ...so long as it wasn't a science project. jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #218,088 by ben_tilly 8/8/05 9:26:21 AM Reply	Buddhism doesn't have a creation myth I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #218,157 by Ashton 8/8/05 3:44:52 PM Reply	:-\ufffd

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