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New Scientists Insist Global Warming Caused By Humans
[link|http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/07/21/global.warming.ap/index.html|http://www.cnn.com/2...ing.ap/index.html]

Global warming is caused primarily by humans and "nearly all climate scientists today" agree with that viewpoint, the new head of the National Academy of Sciences -- a climate scientist himself -- said Wednesday.

Ralph Cicerone's views contrasted with Bush administration officials' emphasis on uncertainty about how much carbon dioxide and other industrial gases warm the atmosphere like a greenhouse.

"Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is now at its highest level in 400,000 years and it continues to rise," said Cicerone, an atmospheric scientist who left as chancellor of University of California-Irvine to become academy president this month. "Nearly all climate scientists today believe that much of Earth's current warming has been caused by increases in the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, mostly from the burning of fuels."

Cicerone, testifying before a Senate Commerce subcommittee on global climate change, cited data from weather stations and ships indicating the surface of the Earth is generally hotter by about seven-tenths of 1 degree Fahrenheit just since the early 1970s.
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So enough flip flopping Mr President. Time to mobilize our scientific community and get cracking on a real plan to address this. Getting to the moon was a good vision with big payoffs. Time to declare a new scientific mission and lead a new era of renewable energy along with some exploration of possible climate hacks that might bring down the GH gas contents.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Why not combine the two and average?
I mean, we had a goal of getting to the moon, right? We got there, but then we left. And therein lies the problem.

Bear with me, here...

If we were to build a permanent outpost on the moon, we could ship some percentage of people to live on the moon. Then we could take the average temperature of the outside environment of everywhere that people live. A weighted average, of course, and I don't mean by amount-of-gravity.

Voilá! No more global warming problem!
-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New How does that save the coral reefs?



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New By appropriate application of satire.
Good for the roots, donchaknow.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Sorry, I forgot something
[image|/forums/images/warning.png|0|This is sarcasm...]
-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New Feh to that.
I'm going on a whale-hunting holiday. With nukes.

Globally warm THIS, mofo.


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Well, ok, but...
...Only around the coral reefs, y'hear?
-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New With these babies...
..near to coral reefs, not near to coral reefs, the effect is just the same.


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Expand Edited by pwhysall July 21, 2005, 03:41:14 PM EDT
New so the less than 1 % outwieghs the 99% natural
so 1 rape means all children in the world are born of rape
1 cow farting means that all the car bombs in Iraq are due to cows methane
1 amazonian mariner emptying his bilge 30 miles due west of seattle is responsible for the antartic ice sheet melt off,
here, pull my finger
thanx,
bill
Just call me Mr. Lynch \\

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New It's not as simple as some would want us to believe.
Remember Mann's "Hockey Stick" graph?

[image|http://www.worldclimatereport.com/wp-images/RIP1.GIF|0|Hockey Stick Temperatures|374|536]

It's plain as day that the Northern Hemisphere temperature was pretty constant up until ~ 1900 when industrialization took off, right? Well, it's been shown that the dramatic rise in this temperature graph is an artifact of the statistical processing done on the data.

It's generally agreed that there was a "Little Ice Age" and a "Medieval Warming Period" in Europe early in the 2nd millennium AD. They're not visible in the Hockey Stick graph, but are visible in data plotted by Esper (the blue curve (Mann's curve is in red)):

[image|http://www.greeningearthsociety.org/wca/2004/images/wca15e.gif|0|Alternate Temperature History|273|600]

The obvious implication is that if the Northern Hemisphere went through a warming period and a cooling period before industrialization, and the past temperature variation was larger than initially thought, then how can we know whether the present warming is unusual or whether we are causing it?

There's much more on the problems with the Hockey Stick analysis at [link|http://www.climateaudit.org|http://www.climateaudit.org] - a site by a team that first published papers on the problems with the original paper. [link|http://www.greeningearthsociety.org/wca/2004/wca_15e.html|This] site discusses Mann's paper and subsequent analysis.

Don't get me wrong - warming of the Earth can have important consequences whether it's caused by humans or natural. And dumping increasing levels of CO2 in the atmosphere can't be a good thing. I'm an advocate of increased efficiency and investment in new propulsion and power technologies to replace burning stuff. But we need more information before we can say that "humans are causing climate change" and in order to know what makes the most sense as an approach to tackle the problem. For example, does it make sense to spend billions of dollars combating climate change if more lives would be saved developing water treatment plants and fighting malaria in the underdeveloped world? Until we have a better handle on the problem, it's really just special interests (on both sides) battling over money and influence. :-(

Ralph Cicerone seems to be an [link|http://www.calit2.net/research/labs/features/6-16-04_cicerone.html|atmospheric scientist], but to date much of the difficulty with the science by advocates has been with the mathematics and interpreting of the data. That's where careful consideration of comments by people who aren't climatologists, but know statistics inside and out, is important. Since we don't have temperature records going back 10,000 years, scientists have to use "proxies" for temperature. Care has to be used in interpreting that data (e.g. is the width of a tree ring a proxy for temperature or CO2 levels or both?).

In short, I don't think it's an open and shut case that climate change is caused by increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere since industrialization.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New I'm gonna buy Alaskan real-estate and get rich this time
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Box 'll sue ya for drilling rights.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New mineral rights in AK are reserved to the state and fed gov
Just call me Mr. Lynch \\

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Key is to buy properly sloping near-coast to end up w/ beach



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
     Scientists Insist Global Warming Caused By Humans - (tuberculosis) - (13)
         Why not combine the two and average? - (Yendor) - (6)
             How does that save the coral reefs? -NT - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                 By appropriate application of satire. - (admin)
                 Sorry, I forgot something - (Yendor)
             Feh to that. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                 Well, ok, but... - (Yendor) - (1)
                     With these babies... - (pwhysall)
         so the less than 1 % outwieghs the 99% natural - (boxley)
         It's not as simple as some would want us to believe. - (Another Scott)
         I'm gonna buy Alaskan real-estate and get rich this time -NT - (tablizer) - (3)
             Box 'll sue ya for drilling rights. -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                 mineral rights in AK are reserved to the state and fed gov -NT - (boxley)
             Key is to buy properly sloping near-coast to end up w/ beach -NT - (tuberculosis)

I can say "where's the bathroom", "how much is that" and "those aren't my drugs" in 187 languages.
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