You didnt just say women ASSIST men in rearing a family!

Post #214,666 by bionerd 7/13/05 2:56:26 PM Reply	You didnt just say women ASSIST men in rearing a family! You're kidding, right? The men PAY the ladies? Just grab me by my hair and drag me back to the cave. First, you show me a family, no matter how liberated, where the woman doesnt do the majority of the child rearing. Even if she works outside the home, the onus is on her to raise those children, with or without help from the father. Second, the word "PAY" infers that the woman is the man's employee and therefore subordinate. Woo Wee, you've got that one wrong, mister. It might be one bucket of money, but she works just as hard for that money as he does and she is ENTITLED to some of that money. Without her, he wouldnt be free to go out and make that money. He'd be stuck home with a gaggle of crying kids wishing he would've kept his pecker in his pants.
Post #214,728 by ben_tilly 7/14/05 11:00:44 AM Reply	tap tap First, you show me a family, no matter how liberated, where the woman doesnt do the majority of the child rearing. You called? Before she started residency it was very different, but here is the recent division of child rearing around here. Dad attends to baby at night, except one nursing. Dad takes care of baby for first 3 hours of day except one more nursing. (This post was interrupted by a request for attention and play...) Grandparents take care of baby during day (with granddad doing most of the work). Mom pumps at work (we are looking at supplementing a little as well). Mom comes home at night and puts baby to bed. And this is during my wife's easy rotation. Just wait until she gets to the harder ones! For the record I was born into a family with a working mom and a stay-at-home dad. My primary caregiver was dad, not mom, until after their divorce. (Even then my mother passed the bulk of the caregiving off on others.) While I grant that the vast majority of families have mom as a primary caregiver, there are a few exceptions. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #214,730 by boxley 7/14/05 11:20:40 AM Reply	men always pay, one way or another thats how it works as far as cave dragging goes you are gonna tell me that womankind does not MAKE men pay? Let any Divorcee's on this board adress that question. thanx, bill Just call me Mr. Lynch \\ Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #214,739 by ben_tilly 7/14/05 11:38:13 AM Reply	Believe it or not... In most places men come out of divorce far better off than women do. Even in ways that you think women should do well. For instance the vast majority of men who contest custody of kids get it. Most of the time kids go with moms because men don't challenge for custody. But the threat of doing so is a powerful bargaining chip for getting other things, and is commonly used. In The Price of Motherhood there is an interesting court case discussed where an economics professor took an interest and assigned to a class the question of what settlement would leave ex-husband and ex-wife at the same standard of living. Their conclusions were introduced to the court, and affected the settlement. The settlement was challenged by the ex-husband because it was extremely out of line with other settlements in the area - and he was right! Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #214,746 by boxley 7/14/05 11:51:29 AM Reply	there is more in the word "pay" than monetary advantage Just call me Mr. Lynch \\ Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #214,749 by imqwerky 7/14/05 12:04:21 PM Reply	Another county heard from... I just got my Social Security statement from the govmint last month. I lack 20 credits from qualifying for benefits on my own. Really pisses me off considering that I have been raising 3 chillens, stimulating the economy and volunteering for myriad non-profits in the last 20+ years. Of course, Ol' Uncle Sam couldn't care less. No W-2 or 1099, no legitimacy. Now, taking another tack, you wouldn't believe how hard I work to __keep__ our money. I was due an $820 reimbursement from the school district and they kept dragging their feet. Had to stay on top of them to keep the wheels greased or else I would have been last on the list. But, if the shoe were on the other foot and I owed the district money? Hoo boy! I would have had to pay it _yesterday_. And things like that go on all the time with doctor's offices, credit card companies; you get the picture. I work hard to spend our money wisely, make our money work hard for us, and get back any money that is supposed to be returned. I buy groceries, make investments, clothe my family, send my son to college, fill my gas tank and vote. And yet! I Don't Count! I am the Engine running this country and I am not even a statistic for the GDP. Really makes me long for a woman President. Peace, Amy "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Heilige Sheisse, what a ride!'" .
Post #214,750 by Andrew Grygus 7/14/05 12:15:14 PM Reply	Watch what you wish for . . You'd likely get a Born Again, Right to Life, gay bashing, "women should be at home and completely subservient to their husbands" Red Stater from the GOP who says, "I'm going to change things so women don't have to do what I've had to do to get these things changed". [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #214,761 by ben_tilly 7/14/05 12:52:37 PM Reply	You mean Condoleeza Rice? There is speculation that she will run in 2008. Many Republicans would love to see her run against Hillary. Random trivia. George Bush has appointed more women to cabinet positions than any other President in history. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #214,834 by bionerd 7/14/05 5:21:10 PM Reply	That's so he can give the good ole boys something pretty to look at. (with the exclusion of Connie) Random trivia. George Bush has appointed more women to cabinet positions than any other President in history.
Post #214,837 by ben_tilly 7/14/05 5:34:05 PM Reply	I wasn't commenting on why he did so. Just the fact that he has done so. It surprised me when I first heard it. Not what I would have expected. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #214,858 by imqwerky 7/14/05 7:50:11 PM Reply	Everybody knows... ...that Condoleeza is she-male. :) Remember the Crying Game?! Peace, Amy "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Heilige Sheisse, what a ride!'" .
Post #215,059 by Ashton 7/15/05 6:27:05 PM Reply	So That's why we've never seen her in a string-bikini. 'Course.. nowadays.... No, we won't go There. Amy.. you be BAAD.
Post #215,076 by imqwerky 7/15/05 7:29:07 PM Reply	I've been corrupted by my Svengali hubby, Thank God! Peace, Amy "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Heilige Sheisse, what a ride!'" .
Post #214,835 by bionerd 7/14/05 5:30:12 PM Reply	I am a divorced person, you big neaderthal! (and I'm using "neaderthal" as a term of endearment) Let's see, in my situation, he makes the minimum child support payments, never sees the kids, never takes them for visitation, doesnt take them for his scheduled 2 weeks vacation each year, never helps out with child care, school clothes, christmas presents... and so on and so forth. Forever and ever amen. He lives with his mom. He has no expenses, except booze and tobacco, he's drunk most of the time. Tell me how he's "paying". And somehow he manages to keep a job while I'm getting my ass kicked out of the best job I ever had. Dont get me started.........
Post #214,859 by boxley 7/14/05 7:56:19 PM Reply	does he cringe everytime your name is mentioned? like I said, payment isnt always money related thanx, bill Just call me Mr. Lynch \\ Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #214,971 by bionerd 7/15/05 10:50:40 AM Reply	I certainly hope so.
Post #214,832 by Ashton 7/14/05 5:06:25 PM Reply	Sounds about time for - The PURITAN rant! I find it easier to see the source of such idiocy as the GDP calculations cited, also fold-in much of the socially-insane 'variables' of all Econ-class formulae (then too - it's easier to grok the resultant hierarchy which enforces that sterile form of the calculating mindset): - by simply considering our Puritan roots. [Puritan rant\ufffd] The Puritans were (aside from their Man-ifold neuroses re guilt and sin, while relegating females to the role of chattels and tolerating, nay seeking.. Other forms of slavery and pillage) a Patriarchy. D'Oh. All else follows from their, there, there, Dear, ..pretty-little head earliest flavors of cha cha cha. In any Puritan, misogyny lurks right beneath that sinful lust-thing - about one micron down, all intermixed with the pervasive Guilty-at-Birth thing which so cripples their every natural bodily experience. Methinks one can parse most codifed absurdities near-directly back to this combo of Puritanism + Muricans' vaunted euphemism/lie generators (heavily slathered-over with that unctuous religiosity). Betcha read Damn-little about Matriarchies in your textbooks, too !?? I know I bloody-well read nada, there. Had to delve, with no assistance, to find anything non-trivial of (er) herstory, especially before the '70s made that neologism popular. For cause. PURITANISM - it got us where we are today; the threshold of nuke extinction for most/all. Its simplicities became the Father of winner-takes-All ergo Screw all them looosers everywhere: modrin vulture capitalism, and the likes of The Donald and his nasty obtuse predators in their Armanis. [/rant; pity it can't be /Puritan toxicity] Rest case. (upon the jawbone of an ass, for fulcrum) :-\ufffd But at least it will be Murican Nukes\ufffd which cast the decisive votes on Universal self-immolation. Stand. Proud. Motherfuckers.
Post #214,862 by imqwerky 7/14/05 8:11:26 PM Reply	Just for fun They let O.J. Simpson and Kobe Bryant walk. But! Find a woman who cooks, cleans, mows the yard, decorates, and invests in the stock market and tries to get other women to do the same? They throw Martha in jail!!!!! Peace, Amy "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Heilige Sheisse, what a ride!'" .
Post #214,899 by Ashton 7/14/05 10:14:54 PM Reply	{chortle} then there's the Grameen Bank Imagine the sweat inside a gaggle of Armani Suits.. as Grameen's payback-ratio eclipses everyone's .. -AND- those women manage to reclaim some independence from being broken-to-leash. The truth shall make you free. But first it will piss you off. -- Gloria Steinem But the Bestest One I recall from the last era where there were ~regular signs of sentient lifeforms in evidence ('70s) was in a book called, (something with) Zyklon-B in the title; Google is so trendy.. they list only recently-Bowdlerized versions of - If males could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament er, cha cha cha
Post #214,903 by imqwerky 7/14/05 10:40:07 PM Reply	No kidding :) "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Heilige Sheisse, what a ride!'" .

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