Post #212,703
6/27/05 12:14:56 PM
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forget f*** the police, police can now f*** you
[link|http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050627/D8B017TG0.html|Rights? You don't need no stinking rights]
no harm no foul
man under restraining order kidnaps and kill 3 daughters
police can't be sued
A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
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Post #212,706
6/27/05 12:41:24 PM
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NRA has been pointing that out for years
If the police aren't legally obligated to protect you, shouldn't you be legally allowed to protect yourself? Shoots holes[0] in the whole argument that the 2nd ammendment only grants gun ownership rights to law enforcement.
[0] Sorry.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #212,710
6/27/05 1:31:56 PM
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Why sorry?
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #212,711
6/27/05 1:43:26 PM
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For passing up a golden opportunity to not make a bad pun
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #212,715
6/27/05 2:34:45 PM
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Ah....
Again, Why sorry? *grin*
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #212,714
6/27/05 2:30:26 PM
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Amendment 2 grants
the States the right to build their own militias. Miller, 1938 "unless the firearm in question has some reasonable relationship to the regulation of a State's militia, amendment two does not apply."
Thanks for playing.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #212,716
6/27/05 2:42:42 PM
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Once again, look up Militia.
It's refers to able-bodied civilians. You can't just redefine words when it suits you. mi\ufffdli\ufffdtia Audio pronunciation of "Militia" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-lsh) n. - An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
- A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
- 3. The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.
The right to bear arms shall not be abridged. This clearly does not refer to 'the right to serve the state', as you (and very many others that would abrogate the individual rights enumerated in the Bill of rights, and change them into collective duties instead) would have it. Wrong again, Mike. Thank YOU for playing. [link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #212,723
6/27/05 3:03:45 PM
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Indiana National Guard, Illinois National Guard, etc. HTH
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #212,724
6/27/05 3:07:07 PM
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Nope. Insist all you like.
It's not the sole exception to a bill of rights for individuals. It is not a right to serve the state.
Saying so is as ridiculous as saying that the right to free speech is actually the right to read state-written propaganda.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #212,749
6/27/05 5:50:30 PM
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*tilt*
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #212,725
6/27/05 3:13:24 PM
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Since defn # 3 there is by definition not able to be...
...be "well-regulated" in any sense that would be meaningful in this context, that seems to indicate it is 1 and/or 2 that is meant.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #212,726
6/27/05 3:26:45 PM
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What was the definition of "militia" when it was written?
Defn 2 seems good. A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency. And if the only people allowed to have guns are in the regular army, how exactly would you expect those called for service in an emergency to be armed? ===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #212,732
6/27/05 4:11:04 PM
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Defn 2 seems to point to National Guard. NG != Regular Army.
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Post #212,738
6/27/05 4:38:03 PM
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A militia = citizen soldiers
A militia is called up from the citizenry. At least that's the sense I get from the constitution. So, "A well regulated militia" hinges on the "right of the people to keep and bear arms". Without armed citizens to call up, you can't get to a well regulated militia.
Also, my feeling is that this was put in by people who had just fought a revolutionary war. You think they may have expected the need for another?
-----------------------------------------
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."
-- H. L. Mencken
Support our troops, Impeach Bush.
D. D. Richards
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Post #212,750
6/27/05 5:52:30 PM
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If Amendment 2 concerned private ownership, ...
why mention a State's milita at all?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #212,752
6/27/05 5:54:54 PM
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Show me where it says "State militia"
Oh wait, it says that a militia is "necessary to the security of a free State," it doesn't say anything about a State being necessary to the existance of a militia.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #212,849
6/28/05 11:56:06 AM
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Please see Miller, 1938.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #212,856
6/28/05 1:02:14 PM
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miller has nothing to do with states rights,
It only has to do is whether a sawed off shotgun is a military weapon On May 15 1939 the Supreme Court overruled the District Court decision, declaring that the NFA was not in conflict with the Second Amendment. The decision agreed that only military type arms are constitutionally protected, and stated "it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense dick all to do with states rights. thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #212,860
6/28/05 1:05:46 PM
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Nice parsing. Missed the intent of the ruling entirely.
Try this direct quote from the ruling: In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #212,863
6/28/05 1:08:57 PM
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Yeah, it says just what the Box said it says.
It is military weapons the people are assured ownership of and weapons of no military application can be banned.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #212,867
6/28/05 1:17:42 PM
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Strictly to do with concealed weapons.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #212,871
6/28/05 1:22:26 PM
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dont see the word "state run" anywhere in there
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #212,876
6/28/05 1:26:14 PM
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Whose "militia" is it?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,877
6/28/05 1:34:16 PM
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Why, THE PEOPLE'S, of course.
NOT the Government's. Unless, of course, you hold to the view that everything that belongs to the people, belongs to the Government. Oh, wait. You do, don't you. mi\ufffdli\ufffdtia n. - An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
- A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
- 3. The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."Quite clear.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #212,889
6/28/05 3:03:27 PM
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You're almost there.
The People's (as in collective - not individual). Thanks for playing.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #212,895
6/28/05 3:30:58 PM
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It was a tweak, son. I say, a tweak.
I was mocking you. You see, we still recognize individuals and individual rights here in the 'States, though the influence of collectivists like yourself has severely eroded them. By your last 'argument' EVERYTHING belongs to the government. Under your interpretation of 'people':
- Only the State would have a right to peacably assemble
- Only the State would be protected from unreasonable search and seizure
- As per the tenth amendment, all powers not reserved to the State, or to the states, would then revert to - the State.
In short, Mike, your argument above is ridiculous. The Second Amendment is not now, nor has it ever been, a 'right' to serve the State, no matter how you much you may wish 'twere so. The amendment is quite clear. The definition of militia, people, keep, and bear, are quite clear. [link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #212,899
6/28/05 3:54:42 PM
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It is a right to collectively protect a State.
Nothing more, nothing less.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #212,901
6/28/05 4:11:55 PM
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And the way to do it is for people to KEEP and BEAR arms.
As in [link|http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=militia|militia]. Which is NOT an armed force in the employ of the government, as you insist.
Duh.
You are getting sillier and sillier.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #212,906
6/28/05 5:16:23 PM
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My last on this. And I don't think you can argue this point.
The people are allowed to own firearms only to afford a state the opportunity to protect itself. I'd argue that amendment 2 is no longer necessary since the states all have their own militia which they themselves arm now. The intent of 2 was to ensure that states could arm their own militias. Once the states became wealthy enough (through taxation) to arm their own militias directly, there's no longer a need for private ownership as described in 2.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #212,911
6/28/05 5:59:13 PM
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I think you're wrong about this.
Not to jump on a dying thread ... well, yes to jump on a dying thread. The people are allowed to own firearms only to afford a state the opportunity to protect itself. I think you're making a leap there. Recall that there was a US government before the Constitution. Also recall that there were state militias long before the Constitution. E.g. [link|http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1191.html|here]: Following distinguished service with Braddock, George Washington was appointed colonel and commander of the Virginia militia forces in 1756. The 23-year-old was assigned responsibility for protecting the vast frontier from Indian attack. This area was outside of the main theaters of war and the major decisions were made by British officers and officials.
Nevertheless, the future commander of the Continental Army faced a challenging experience. Independent-minded militiamen presented frequent discipline problems. Washington established his authority by ordering the flogging of recalcitrant soldiers and the hanging of several deserters. He also had to cope with the undependability of the Virginia assembly, which was slow to provide supplies and pay for the soldiers; even when the money arrived, the colony regularly paid at a lower scale than its neighbors \ufffd a fact that did much to undermine morale. It's clear that the colonies were funding (at least partially) their militias before the Constitution. [link|http://www.usconstitution.net/articles.html#Article3|Article 3] of the Articles of Confederation supports your view of the 2nd Amendment, but note that the words are very different: No vessel of war shall be kept up in time of peace by any State, except such number only, as shall be deemed necessary by the United States in Congress assembled, for the defense of such State, or its trade; nor shall any body of forces be kept up by any State in time of peace, except such number only, as in the judgement of the United States in Congress assembled, shall be deemed requisite to garrison the forts necessary for the defense of such State; but every State shall always keep up a well-regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accoutered, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of filed pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage. If the 2nd Amendment was to apply to the States and not to the People, why was the wording changed from what was given above? Cheers, Scott.
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Post #212,927
6/28/05 8:15:26 PM
6/28/05 8:18:42 PM
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Sure I can.
And the purpose of the amendment isn't done. In no particular order: - Because the very people of this country are armed, even should our government's armed forces be defeated, the very people would also have to be conquered. That's the way it was then, that's the way it is now. You think Iraq is bad? Imagine say, Chinese troops trying to take West Virginia, for example. Don't say 'that can't happen here'; an economic collapse, nuclear conflict and major defeat could make it happen. Our militia puts most armies to shame.
- Part of the reason for amendment 2 was a profound distrust of the Federal government. The people didn't want the Fed to become an oppressor. Your own desire to accumulate arms in the face of the (very) possible coming storm speaks to that.
- Another reason for the amendment was the lack of any police; especially in rural areas. Even today, the police have been absolved of the requirement to uphold the law. Removing effective self-defense from the law-abiding was simply NOT acceptable to the people then, neither is it today. (the presence of the NRA - an enormous, member-supported organisaton dedicated to preventing folk like you from instituting a police state shows THAT) When the choice was made between a police-state and people able to defend themselves, people chose to defend themselves, again due to a profound distrust of government to look after their own interests. I do not think that a reversal of that decision is warranted today.
In short, it's not obsolete; the nature of man has NOT changed - it's a necessary right to ensure the security of a free state. [link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
Edited by imric
June 28, 2005, 08:18:42 PM EDT
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Post #212,938
6/28/05 9:49:30 PM
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By all means.. Go For It
Do Plan for the final complete unravelling, so that you can keep up a cyclic rate-of-fire to the very end, with your clip-fed, gas-operated semiautomatic weapon. cha cha cha.
Y E S Be Prepared every waking hour, 'cause You. Never. Know.
(Surely - this denouement too! was envisioned by the Constitutional Convention; their prescience extended right Out There ----> to the rise of the inevitable Corporatocracy, via the suborning of 'the people's' representatives.)
Surely reeled off, too: the military theological industrial complex du jour.
Yup, they fully grokked i=i0ekT
It seems that Ben F ackshully Did foresee the temporariness; assigned an exact reason for denouement: ~the corruption of the people.. What a prophet!
Oh - the Yellow Hordes? Piece of cake. Everyone Will want what We Gots. Plan for it.
By all means: one must be Armed 24/7.
It's the Only way to be Sure thus 'Secure'.
How could I have missed.. the entire zeitgeist!?
I have miserably failed.. to Love the Gun.
Maybe I can atone.. help get those Breeder reactors going! Soon.
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Post #212,948
6/28/05 11:06:10 PM
6/28/05 11:10:53 PM
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Funny, Ash.
It wasn't the Chinese they forsaw, but the need to be able defend oneself and one's country, and not to depend on others to do it for you at all times.
To be prepared is to NOT be a victim. It does NOT mean you live in fear, or are in any way psycho, as you are wont to insist.
To have a gun does not necessitate it's use.
But enjoy your strawmen. Enjoy your fantasies. Enjoy your dependency.
But DON'T insist that your short-sighted 'wisdom' be forced on everybody else.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
Edited by imric
June 28, 2005, 11:10:53 PM EDT
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Post #212,952
6/28/05 11:25:17 PM
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in a pinch Ashton is not unarmed, he just regrets the need
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,963
6/29/05 12:58:05 AM
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Regrets the need?
So do I - how nice it would be, if humans didn't use guns on eachother... But then, if that were so, then it wouldn't be an issue, would it? Then what harm a to have a gun?
He owns guns, but cries out against the very right to own them? Really?
If this is so - well, I'm taken aback.
Ashton?
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #212,966
6/29/05 2:33:24 AM
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You aren't really going to get it, are you?
You two are f u n n y! thoughti'ddie ..
Use the ..pry outta my cold dead hands a lot, too?
Think 'NRA' Doesn't refer to the National Recovery Act, and that poor 'ol Charlatan Heston has something to do with it?
You will dismiss the entire mindset of feeling needing-to-be-Armed, as if that choice had no effect upon your entire life habits. (And you're quite Sure that it does not.)
re that, then: never. mind.
Deciding not to let guns be a part of my existence does not mean I am ignorant of same. Military school. There were guns there. I know how to use them.
It needs minimal dexterity or IQ (that might even be an asset, if not an absolute requirement?)
Can field strip an M1 and maybe still (?) a .45 I did alright on those little paper targets, but never killed a boar (however tempted re some bores) - nor join the 'hunting' 'sport' thing.
Onward Xian soldiers just never made my Hit Parade.
Was Jesus Armed? So who wrote that bloody anthem, anyway?
..marching as to War. Oh YEAH! Bring it On, Baby! We'uns Love (the sinner) but We'uns Hates the ___ turn-the-Other-cheek cha cha
Hopelessly muddled, we see.
Did chemistry. I also know what's in my Toxicology manual, and how to make phlogiston; talk about yer incendiary devices. So? Knowledge is power. But preoccupation with threat-checklists is psychic illness IMO.
Sometimes such illnesses pervade an entire population - y'know? Just as does cancer. (Greed, etc.)
Wonder if there's any synchronicity Guns <-> Cancer in the larger Scheme?
I'm not about to join the fantasy train which supposes that wandering around packing heat - is gonna Save me from things that go bump in the night.
I also don't live in one of our countless urban decayed zones (our most predictable Homeland Product?) - rendering the matter moot, anyway.
As to what I might.?. do, when the thin veneer of 'civil' yields to the collective inner spoiled-brat, on a large scale - in a culture which has become accustomed / feeling entitled! to using 25% of the world's resources (for generations) ..
Did I detect a hint of that wondering in your stereotypical \ufffdHuh!? - at the thought that I just might know how a stupid fucking gun works?
(Anyone who answers such a question in-advance, is dumber than the asker.)
See ya on the barricades; well... depending on what they think they're fighting for/against, natch.
moi
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Post #212,975
6/29/05 7:09:04 AM
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Silly boy.
Knowledge of guns means nothing - if you can't get one if you need it.
And understand, the tool may be necessary one day.
And guns part of my life? Whaddya think - I take it out and fondle it daily? Think about it even - often? That I sleep with it under my pillow? ROFL. I do enjoy shooting - but I haven't even done that in a long time. I chased a burglar out of the house with a shotgun once. And funny - I didn't need to shoot him - and a cop would have taken a long time to get there. It did, literally save me from things that go bump in the night.
Because I want to be able to defend myself - as is my right - does not make me a slavering violence junkie; no, that's YOUR fantasy.
As to the 'Xian' dig. Well - I'm not a martyr.
Your knowledge of chemstry is fine - Knowledge IS power. It's irrelevant to this discussion, though - unless YOU keep bombs or poisons ready for use... In which case your paranoia exceeds mine.
Enough.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #213,094
6/29/05 5:04:10 PM
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{chortle} Thanks for playing.
C'mon Skip -- the implications of ideas of 'security' and of 'guns' (+ variants) is as old as (in that Other field guaranteed to mangle language beyond any possibility of using it for actual communication) ~~
If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
-- Philip K. Dick
PLUS
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectability to these passions.
-- Bertrand Russell
Ergo, somewhere-along-the-Way - One makes a choice; most often it seems not-preceeded by much internal thrashing; though 'unconsciously' is not remotely an apt description either:
Be manipulated by infinite imaginations of fearful Possibilities?
And. take. steps. to. anticipate. them. all.
OR
Just Live. Notice as prudence demands / ie don't be Stupid - as is beneath a sentient Being.
So then.. some of us -
A) Eschew taking in impressions of heaped dead burned bodies with close-up Colour views of .44 Magnum holes-in-headremains .. for fucking Entertainment!! yet
[because you Are what Impressions you allow into your jelloware] and
B) -Fully equivalently- refuse to contemplate some Mega-psychopath who counsels His [it's Always a 'He' when you're making-up Megalomaniacs] sheep-creatures to Off a Son; stone-to-death an 'Adult'-erer or else: burn in a lake of Phosphorous + salt + {shudder} 140 dB amplified-guitar music -- for weeks & weeks & weeks & weeks & weeks.
Obv neither geo Boole's nor any other cutesy 'logic' recipe shall transcend the gap between the material/literal and the evanescent.. let alone the immanent ephemeral. ie
While ... 'guns' can be interesting mechanisms, as is a combine harvester or a Bach Stradivarius cornet - each one carries with it its Purpose 24/7. And each carrier of a gun has decided Not to take the Chance -???- that s/he won't get outta this thing Alive unless ready to Kill. Anytime. 24/7. Now.. the Purpose of a book is ~~
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
\tAdmit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
\tOr bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
\tThat looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
\tWhose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
\tWithin his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
\tBut bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
\tI never writ, nor no man ever loved.
-- Bard, Sonnet CXVI
I Love Purposeful things. Well, for some.. Purposes.
Screw the other Fear-mongering homo-sap-crafted 'Accessories'
(objects or, hand-crafted Gawds-just-like-us)
-thankyouverymuch-
Cha!
I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
-- Michael Rennie as Klaatu
The believer is happy.
The doubter is wise.
|
Post #213,124
6/29/05 9:40:48 PM
|
For Ash, the word "succinct" is blasphemy
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here. After reading it a couple times, I think it means you are in love with your own ability to string words together.
In other words; What the hell did you just say?
-----------------------------------------
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."
-- H. L. Mencken
Support our troops, Impeach Bush.
D. D. Richards
|
Post #213,127
6/29/05 9:48:02 PM
|
simple he scratches his arse
and declaims that he deplores the need that some folks have to be unable to drink a biscuit and coffee for breakfast unless a 44 caliber revolver has been previously been strapped to their waist in case John Wayne comes back from the dead and declaims "Pussy!"
clear enough?
nother words he doesnt see the personal need but if you get wrangly on him dont expect him to roll over and play Jeraldo
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #213,129
6/29/05 9:56:45 PM
|
For Box, the word "clarity", no, I won't do it.
-----------------------------------------
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."
-- H. L. Mencken
Support our troops, Impeach Bush.
D. D. Richards
|
Post #213,136
6/29/05 10:42:33 PM
|
Dude, you just did
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #213,137
6/29/05 10:47:27 PM
6/29/05 10:47:44 PM
|
Is your it, his it?
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Edited by ben_tilly
June 29, 2005, 10:47:44 PM EDT
|
Post #213,143
6/29/05 11:54:10 PM
|
[Gawd] + [Guns] = will never a sonnet make. (The VB version)
|
Post #213,178
6/30/05 11:16:54 AM
|
Silverlock, when you get Ash and Box in a debate...
...if your Universal Translator (or your Boxlish-to-English and your Ashlish-to-English translator, if you have the older models) is/are not working, you will be in a world of hurt if your goal is to understand the interchange.
If on the other hand, you are simply interested in how English-like words can be strung together in novel and interesting ways, simply lean back, watch and admire....
(In other words, I hear you...)
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #212,879
6/28/05 1:44:49 PM
|
Militia is the same as Posse
locals running local military reaction force for local benefit and offering services as needed to a free state note "a" not "the"
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,884
6/28/05 2:12:54 PM
|
So they defined what arms are covered
Can you quote for me the passage where they define "militia"?
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #212,718
6/27/05 2:43:38 PM
|
Miller decision is as valid as USSC elect bush decision
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,722
6/27/05 3:03:05 PM
|
Hardly.
Even the Rehnquist Five didn't reverse it - how could they? They at least know how to read, "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,727
6/27/05 3:38:23 PM
|
so the militia helping the border guards
the militia that helped blow up the federal building in OKC and the militia's that the muslims are taking joint training in pakistan can have guns but not the individual? Doesnt make sense....
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,731
6/27/05 4:10:00 PM
|
Those are your prime examples of *well-regulated* militias?
|
Post #212,733
6/27/05 4:16:37 PM
|
certainly they are well regulated, by members
the position that they can only be run by the centralized state government appears nowhere in the document in question.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,735
6/27/05 4:27:24 PM
|
That's why they call themselves eg: Michigan Militia
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #212,751
6/27/05 5:53:53 PM
|
That's a private (non-State Sanctioned) group.
Amendment 2 does not apply to them.
qed
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,760
6/27/05 6:10:42 PM
|
Amendment 2 doesn't say "state sanctioned"
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #212,848
6/28/05 11:55:25 AM
|
Amendment 2 concerns States' Rights.
Lunatics in the UP do not constitute the State of Michigan. HTH.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,852
6/28/05 12:39:05 PM
|
Nope. Wrong again.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
Note, that it is not "the right of the State". Not by any wild stretch of the imagination. To rationalise that requires redefinition of "people", "right", "militia", "keep", "bear" and "infringed".
Regardless of what you think. This amendment is clear and simple. If you don't like it, build a national referendum to change the Constitution. I'd wish you luck, but I find the goal of only permitting arms to government employees abhorrent.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #212,854
6/28/05 12:59:52 PM
|
Nice try. It's *YOU* that needs an amendment.
Read the case law. Read the USSC's opinions (both liberal and conservative court opinions and rulings). The plain fact of the matter is that within the legal community, there is no controversy here. The amendment plainly give the states the right to arm their own militias.
Look, I'm not saying that private ownership is illegal - or even that there is no right to private ownership. I'm just saying, (as all courts have who have addressed the issue), amendment 2 does not apply to private ownership of firearms. You want an explicit Constitutional right to private ownership? Lobby for one. It currently does not exist.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,858
6/28/05 1:04:21 PM
|
Any non-contorted reading of that sentence . . .
. . makes clear the people are to be armed so they are ready and able to participate in a militia. By this logic the people should be armed with weapons appropriate to a militia, which makes clear that the recently expired ban on assault rifles was, in fact, unconstitutional.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
|
Post #212,861
6/28/05 1:07:33 PM
|
No.
And the reason the decision was made the way it was is my point (and that of the rest of the legal community's) exactly. That ruling concerned "private ownership unrelated to the arming of a State's militia."
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,864
6/28/05 1:13:59 PM
|
Also...
RPGs, battlefield nukes and artillery.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #212,874
6/28/05 1:24:52 PM
|
Well, a case could be made . .
. . that classes of weapons unknown to the writers could be excluded, since they did not have the opportunity to exclude them. Artillery did exist and I see no reason to ban private ownership of artillery. It's kind of difficult to deploy, hard to conceal and expensive to operate so it's not quite the thing for a drive-by shooting.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
|
Post #212,919
6/28/05 7:21:39 PM
|
Re: Well, a case could be made . .
A recoilless rifle makes quite a mess and would sit nicely on the back of a truck.
If classes of weapons unknown to the writers are excluded, it's basically down to muskets, pikes and sabres.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #212,923
6/28/05 7:42:39 PM
|
I think crew served weapons would not be in order
as an individual right to bear arms, you cant load aim and fire without assistants, doesnt make the cut.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,878
6/28/05 1:42:51 PM
|
you can own artillery, and use it on special occasions
A few restrictions, the shell cannot be HE/WP etc, as that comes under different jurisdictions as they are labelled explosives but a regular Mortar, cannon etc is fine. Thats why a 16inch gun is fine, an RPG is not.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,882
6/28/05 2:07:35 PM
|
My uncle has a "3 pounder".
[link|http://johnsmilitaryhistory.tripod.com/threepdr.html|E.g. Here]. That's not his, but that's what it looks like. It's a replica.
He's fired it at an artillery range.
He once said he could own a machine gun if he had the necessary "tax stamp".
YMMV.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #212,853
6/28/05 12:57:55 PM
|
You're reaching.
The amendment's text is plain on the face of it. Your reading requires implications and redefinitions. Guess who loses?
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #212,855
6/28/05 1:00:23 PM
|
So, I, the ENTIRE legal community and the USSC are wrong.
But you and the NRA are right. Is that about it?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,857
6/28/05 1:03:08 PM
|
Entire Legal community? hardly
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,859
6/28/05 1:04:33 PM
|
*blam* *VRRRROooooommmmm....*
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #212,862
6/28/05 1:08:02 PM
|
Find a respected law journal that argues the NRA's position.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,869
6/28/05 1:20:51 PM
|
Lawyers have a very obvious agenda.
An armed populace is dangerous to those who consider themselves the unquestioned and unquestionable (and very profitable) interpreters of law.
Despite this agenda they have not succeeded in disarming the populace because they don't have the legal grounds to do so.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
|
Post #212,875
6/28/05 1:25:50 PM
|
I never suggested they did.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,872
6/28/05 1:23:32 PM
|
US Justice Department? Oh you said respected :-)
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,881
6/28/05 1:49:49 PM
|
howabout the 1857 supreme court?
"It would give to persons of the negro race, ... the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, ... the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went." scott vs sandford. Sounds like no militia required. thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,868
6/28/05 1:19:37 PM
|
Miller was about *concealed* weapons.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #212,873
6/28/05 1:24:37 PM
|
Transport of a sawed-off shotgun.
An indictment in the District Court Western District Arkansas, charged that Jack Miller and Frank Layton 'did unlawfully, knowingly, wilfully, and feloniously transport in interstate commerce from the town of Claremore in the State of Oklahoma to the town of Siloam Springs in the State of Arkansas a certain firearm, to-wit, a double barrel 12-gauge Stevens shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches in length, bearing identification number 76230, said defendants, at the time of so transporting said firearm in interstate commerce as aforesaid, not having registered said firearm as required by Section 1132d of Title 26, United States Code, 26 U.S.C.A. 1132d (Act of June 26, 1934, c. 757, Sec. 5, 48 Stat. 1237), and not having in their possession a stamp-affixed written order for said firearm as provided by Section 1132c, Title 26, United States Code, 26 U.S.C.A. 1132c (June 26, 1934, c. 757, Sec. 4, 48 Stat. 1237) and the regulations issued under authority of the said Act of Congress known as the 'National Firearms Act' approved June 26, 1934, contrary to the form of the statute in such case made and provided, and against the peace and dignity of the United States.' bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,880
6/28/05 1:48:56 PM
|
Er, yes. A concealed weapon. Your point?
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #212,883
6/28/05 2:09:06 PM
|
And you'll notice
that the case was tried on Interstate Commerce rules and not state or individual rights. You are seriously stretching this ruling to try and make it apply where it does not. I don't necessarily fault you, as I'm sure whoever convinced you that it applied was very convincing.
Problem is, they (and you) are completely wrong.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #212,890
6/28/05 3:04:46 PM
|
You, Scott and the NRA, right?
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,903
6/28/05 4:46:59 PM
|
I'm not an NRA member.
Doesn't change the fact that I agree with the Constitutional guarantee to keep and bear arms and that your Miller precedent does not apply to or trump this Constitutional guarantee.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #212,907
6/28/05 5:17:11 PM
|
See my last. You are, once again, wrong. ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,940
6/28/05 10:11:57 PM
|
Oh, I don't think so.
But you are welcome to your own opinion, even if it isn't shared by anyone else ;-)
Its a free country.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #212,886
6/28/05 2:21:11 PM
|
apparently you can roll your own machine guns now
[link|http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=United+States+v.+Stewart&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1|http://www.answers.c...p=8&curtab=2222_1] An ATF search of Mr. Stewart's residence turned up thirty-one firearms, including five machineguns. The machineguns had been machined and assembled by Stewart. Stewart was charged and convicted of one count of felony possession of firearms in violation of 18 U.S.C. \ufffd 922(g)(1) and \ufffd 924(a)(2), and five counts of unlawful possession of a machinegun in violation of 18 U.S.C. \ufffd 922(o). Stewart appealed his conviction for unlawful possession of machineguns, claiming that 18 U.S.C. \ufffd 922(o) is an invalid exercise of Congress\ufffds commerce power and violates the Second Amendment.
Ninth Circuit Court Appeals opinion
Mr. Stewart won his case in an opinion rendered by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, on November 13th, 2003. The Department of Justice then request and received a stay, while they appealed the case to the Supreme Court of the United States. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that:
* "...a homemade machinegun may be part of a gun collection or may be crafted as a hobby. Or it may be used for illegal purposes. Whatever its intended use, without some evidence that it will be sold or transferred\ufffdand there is none here\ufffdits relationship to interstate commerce is highly attenuated."
* "...section 922(o) contains no jurisdictional element anchoring the prohibited activity to interstate commerce."
* "...there is no evidence that section 922(o) was enacted to regulate commercial aspects of the machinegun business. More likely, section 922(o) was intended to keep machineguns out of the hands of criminals\ufffdan admirable goal, but not a commercial one." should sink Miller nicely thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #212,891
6/28/05 3:08:37 PM
|
Don't hold your breath.
It is ironic that I find myself feeling a great need to have a small arsenal at home these days. But I wouldn't be holding out any "reverse Miller/assault rifle/etc." hopes. Not with this junta. The last thing Bush, et al. want is an armed populace.
I'd bet the truth is that no one wants a case to go to the USSC that would definitively answer the question of whether Amendment 2 applies to private ownership for fear they would lose, no matter what their position is.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
|
Post #212,892
6/28/05 3:17:47 PM
|
You realize that was the intent, right?
It
is ironic that I find myself feeling a great need to have a small
arsenal at home these days. ... The last thing Bush, et al. want is an
armed populace. Could these two ideas be related, maybe? As in, the more the government wants to restrict private ownership of firearms, the more people come to think it's time to start stocking up. That was only, like, the WHOLE FREAKING POINT of the 2nd Ammendment. ===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #212,898
6/28/05 3:53:40 PM
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Wrong. But it's pointless to argue this anymore. ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #212,904
6/28/05 4:49:53 PM
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yes you are...and yes it is.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #212,908
6/28/05 5:32:42 PM
6/28/05 5:34:52 PM
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In many ways the whole thing is a Grand Diversion - << \ufffd >>-
How does one exterminate-via-legalese and its hoary pseudo-'science' this observation (?)
One does not truly desire to live in a culture in which there is a perceived common need to feel 'armed'.
(Whether to - -
mollify tykes-of-all ages' puerile idea of manhood?
protect from an imagined [Worst-of-all: Real] marauding neighbor[hood. now.]?
fend off jack-booted Fatherland forces of the present or future?
____? fill-in-blanks)
ie what IS the internal, cumulative, subtle, integrated effect, The COST! to one's psyche -- of carrying about this sensibility 24/7 -?-
edit tyop
How do I despise thee?
Let me count the ways;
I despise thee to the depth and breadth and height my soul can retch,
while feeling out of sight for the ends of being
and ideal gracelessness
...
(profuse apology, EBB)
Lessee...
house gun - (upstairs and down; also near door(s), kitchen, bedrooms, closets, garage, attic OR: just wear that holster - but bath == most vulnerable locale ... waterproof plastic)
car gun (under seat and glove box?)
yard gun - perhaps strategically-placed 'birdhouses' to protect from weather
cycle gun - hip? handlebars?
jogging gun - flap-flap-flap
boating gun - fore AND aft?
walking - cane gun?
trailer RV gun(s) - duplicate above
swimming gun - under codpiece Derringer?
diving gun - in the male bra?
undersea diving gun - [toughie]
spelunking gun - min. snags on crags and stalagmites
parachuting gun - higher/lower priority over altimeter?
school gun - bullying is approaching Pop #1, waay ahead of scholarship
school-bus gun - must be limited charge so as not to pierce driver's bulletproof enclosure
skating gun - 'well-balanced' grip
surfing gun - pop-up from surfboard?
shopping gun - cart clip-on?
while-sex gun - better place than under pillow?
sports gun - under bleacher Velcro? shoulder hoster under Kevlar 'parka'?
in-sport gun - bat-gun? bowling-ball grenade? tennis racquet handle barrel?
movie gun - matte black, of course
Noise-concert gun - sequined?
Music concert gun - silenced, of course
Lecture attendance gun - silencer AND engraved with a pithy ode
Doctor-visiting gun - sterile, of course - like this Whole Plan
{partial listing..}
to be continued..
as Innovation proceeds
and $$-savings expands
to cover
the Basic-36-pack,
just to get
started.
feeling.
Secure.
Edited by Ashton
June 28, 2005, 05:34:52 PM EDT
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Post #212,910
6/28/05 5:44:10 PM
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Not a toughie.
undersea diving gun - [toughie] They're called spear guns, they exist, and they're legal. For skewering fish. -YendorMike
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
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Post #212,916
6/28/05 6:59:07 PM
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heck, the only gun I ever need,,, is your gun
if crapaud is due to hit the occillator just be aware of what needs to be available. I am not so concerned as the neer do well who wishes to relive me of a few material goods, chances are I will be poorer but alive after such encounter as I am a disgruntled person who wishes to kill me. Then all the smiling head bobbing and agreeableness is for naught. Especially if that disgruntled person is acting under color of law. Shoot accurately and save the worries about the lawyer fees for later.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #213,004
6/29/05 10:08:52 AM
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I should have fled when I had the chance.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #213,013
6/29/05 10:33:15 AM
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Follow your pyramid.
[link|http://www.arches.uga.edu/~danni/maslow.htm|of needs that is.]
Where in there is the esoteric...the "higher brain function".
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #213,095
6/29/05 5:23:21 PM
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Maslow builds pyramids
Meher Baba (among others) just says,
[when asked to make it rilly-Simple for the attention-deficit folk, as want to order Enlightenment V.2a in a discounted 5-pack, from the web, on their cel, in the UAV, while watchin the Reality Cee Dee on the dash TFT; i-Pod-in-ear]
Don't worry;
Be happy
HTH
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Post #213,096
6/29/05 5:25:00 PM
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ROFL!
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #213,121
6/29/05 9:30:32 PM
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Point well ignored, I see.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #213,146
6/30/05 12:09:20 AM
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Hardly missed. Different priorities on my pyramid.
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Post #213,193
6/30/05 1:56:09 PM
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I keep forgetting
That human traits don't always apply '=p
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #213,201
6/30/05 4:14:55 PM
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I keep remembering
Manfred's comment to a priest who had arrived (unbidden, natch) as his pursuit of Astarte was nearing its denouement. Seeking to console the priest's lugubrious effusions / gently prod him to hie hence, saith Manfred -
Old man ... it is not.. so.. hard.. to die.
(Best.. if one insists upon having traits - that one select super-human ones, as the tawdry infra- ones are simply no fun at all.)
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