Over-PC BS; she's a Canuckimo, Kemosabe a Prarie Injun.

the relationship, not the word.

For instance, there have been a variety of comedy skits of a [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonto|Tonto]-like character who is actually much more capable than the Lone Ranger-like character. It works as comedy because of the supposition that Tonto was less capable, or subservient, in the real show.

Similarly, "Uncle Tom" is now taken as a [link|http://www.iath.virginia.edu/utc/africam/afin20c.html|pejorative] even though it can be argued that the character in Uncle Tom's cabin was actually sympathetic (e.g., [link|http://www.iath.virginia.edu/utc/africam/afar03at.html|this] unsigned commentary in Frederick Douglass's paper in 1852).

Language and perceptions evolve. It's probably pointless to try to find logic in it. :-)

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
(Who hasn't actually read UTC.)

bars, those being ones with lots of natives in them.

I'm with box on that one.

"Chief" is another one that can easily lead to fisticuffs.

The really big one that will get you simultaneously pounded upon by everyone within arms' reach is "wagon burner". That'll lose you your face in pretty much no time flat.

That said, I understand why they didn't hear the appeal. The case is not civil in nature, but is instead civil... and the area in question falls under the provincial purview. It's not their case to hear, basically; this is the Supreme Court telling the province that they need to revisit their legislation as well as reviewing their executive practices (this would be the guidelines that they've given to the provincial court system about how to deal with these sorts of complaints).

In short, any decision that they would have made would have been unconstitutional on the face of it. The NBHRC should have known that. I suspect that this was done to get the mucky mucks at the NBHRC off the hook: "see, we did every possible thing that we could to deal with this".

That said, I'm very disappointed in the lack of coverage in Canadian media. Think I'll write a letter of complaint; this is a case of national interest and should be covered. I've discovered that a lot of people here have a lot of confusion about the relative areas of jurisdiction of provinces and Canada; this kind of story could have had an educational effect about that if reported properly (which, needless to say, wouldn't have happened anyway).

Basically, this is similar in nature as to why the US Supreme Court declined to review the Shiavo case, until they were forced to by executive fiat; it's was the state/province's right and responsibility to legislate and manage the issue.

--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #205,151 by CRConrad 4/28/05 4:19:21 PM Reply	Over-PC BS; she's a Canuckimo, Kemosabe a Prarie Injun. Fuck, BOx, I would call YOU "Kemosabe", although we're both more or less "white". It's a slang word for "pal" or "sidekick", not for "fucking esky", ferfuckssake! (Which was mentioned in the last article on this subject that you linked to here, half a year or a year or so ago, BTW, O master of the good-but-short memory.) [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #205,153 by boxley 4/28/05 4:30:06 PM Reply	she's an eastern woodlands Indian :-) not eskimo All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett [link\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/] Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #205,160 by CRConrad 4/28/05 5:03:06 PM Reply	Bah - even injuns up there are pretty much Canuckimoes. And that was just PART of ONE point; not even my main point, Kemosabe. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #205,162 by boxley 4/28/05 5:07:18 PM Reply	yer main point is wrong come to america, call a black co-worker sambo, if you have any teeth left get a lawyer cause the lawsuit is coming. thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett [link\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/] Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #205,281 by CRConrad 4/29/05 6:41:54 PM Reply	My main point was Kemosabe IS NOT LIKE Sambo in that respect
Post #205,306 by pwhysall 4/30/05 3:25:38 AM Reply	I think it is, on that side of the pond. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #205,308 by drewk 4/30/05 7:39:53 AM Reply	Tonto was subservient First problem is, "Kemosabe isn't my language. You think everyone with dark skin is the same?" Second problem is, "So now I'm just your side-kick, is that it?" Yeah, it'd be a problem over here. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #205,322 by Andrew Grygus 4/30/05 12:51:21 PM Reply	Some of this thread just isn't making sense to me. "Kemosabe" is what Tonto called the Lone Ranger, not the other way around (see my cow pie joke, which is very old). Calling someone "Kemosabe" would imply you were the sidekick, or being treated as one by the person you called that. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #205,323 by Another Scott 4/30/05 1:14:00 PM Reply	I think it's more of an issue of perception of ... the relationship, not the word. For instance, there have been a variety of comedy skits of a [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonto\|Tonto]-like character who is actually much more capable than the Lone Ranger-like character. It works as comedy because of the supposition that Tonto was less capable, or subservient, in the real show. Similarly, "Uncle Tom" is now taken as a [link\|http://www.iath.virginia.edu/utc/africam/afin20c.html\|pejorative] even though it can be argued that the character in Uncle Tom's cabin was actually sympathetic (e.g., [link\|http://www.iath.virginia.edu/utc/africam/afar03at.html\|this] unsigned commentary in Frederick Douglass's paper in 1852). Language and perceptions evolve. It's probably pointless to try to find logic in it. :-) FWIW. Cheers, Scott. (Who hasn't actually read UTC.)
Post #205,340 by drewk 4/30/05 3:03:01 PM Reply	Then why would someone call an indian that? If an indian, or someone who looked like one, called a white man kemosabe, it could be taken in the original supposed intent of the term. But to me it seems calling a dark-skinned person kemosabe would be like calling someone in a turban Haji. I don't suppose most Turbaned-Americans would appreciate it. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #205,352 by a6l6e6x 4/30/05 5:14:07 PM Reply	Yes, Bwana! :) Alex The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #205,374 by jake123 4/30/05 7:48:54 PM Reply	Yeah, you don't want to run that one by folks in certain bars, those being ones with lots of natives in them. I'm with box on that one. "Chief" is another one that can easily lead to fisticuffs. The really big one that will get you simultaneously pounded upon by everyone within arms' reach is "wagon burner". That'll lose you your face in pretty much no time flat. That said, I understand why they didn't hear the appeal. The case is not civil in nature, but is instead civil... and the area in question falls under the provincial purview. It's not their case to hear, basically; this is the Supreme Court telling the province that they need to revisit their legislation as well as reviewing their executive practices (this would be the guidelines that they've given to the provincial court system about how to deal with these sorts of complaints). In short, any decision that they would have made would have been unconstitutional on the face of it. The NBHRC should have known that. I suspect that this was done to get the mucky mucks at the NBHRC off the hook: "see, we did every possible thing that we could to deal with this". That said, I'm very disappointed in the lack of coverage in Canadian media. Think I'll write a letter of complaint; this is a case of national interest and should be covered. I've discovered that a lot of people here have a lot of confusion about the relative areas of jurisdiction of provinces and Canada; this kind of story could have had an educational effect about that if reported properly (which, needless to say, wouldn't have happened anyway). Basically, this is similar in nature as to why the US Supreme Court declined to review the Shiavo case, until they were forced to by executive fiat; it's was the state/province's right and responsibility to legislate and manage the issue. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #205,484 by CRConrad 5/2/05 2:07:05 AM Reply	OK, seems it is. Sorry, guys, I was obviously wrong. But BOx, your inability to use some fucking LOGIC to say what you mean still pisses me off. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #205,513 by boxley 5/2/05 9:53:43 AM Reply	hey, I ever make it to Finland for a beer you can splain local culture to me with whatever logic you choose :-) thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett [link\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/] Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #205,592 by CRConrad 5/2/05 4:36:50 PM Reply	...you won't need any logic to get one!
Post #205,163 by Andrew Grygus 4/28/05 5:08:41 PM Reply	After Tonto's death . . . . . the Lone Ranger carried his ashes back to his tribe. While he was there, the Chief gave him a tour of their lands and activities to show him how well the tribe was doing. Heading back to the village, the Chief said, "It'll be shorter if we cut across this cow pasture, but be careful you don't step in the kemosabe." [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #205,167 by jbrabeck 4/28/05 6:37:56 PM Reply	In the old Lone Ranger series, what did "kemosabe" mean? [link\|http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_061.html\|The Straight Dope] ... After further consultation with Indian language expert Laura Buszard-Welcher, we've established that Kamp Kee-Mo Sah-Bee was in an area inhabited by the Ottawa, who spoke a dialect of Ojibwe with the same word giimoozaabi. There were also Potawatomi in the region who spoke a closely related language with a similar word. So while the "trusty" part may have been hype, kemosabe probably really was a Native American term for "scout." ... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #205,382 by andread 4/30/05 8:55:48 PM Reply	Faithful Scout That is the meaning of kemosabe according to Tonto if you ever see the origin episode on TV you can see for yourself A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]

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