Thoughts on death

Post #203,070 by bionerd 4/12/05 5:16:06 PM Reply	Thoughts on death Last week I watched a show about AA Flight 11, the first plane that crashed into the WTC. It was interesting in that it played audio from the hijackers and from some of the flight crew. I was hoping to gain some more insight into what victims go through when they realize they are going to die. I\ufffdve worked with a lot disaster survivors. I understand the psychology of helping family and friends cope with the sudden and traumatic death of a loved one. What I don\ufffdt know is what goes through someone\ufffds mind when they realize they are going to die an unexpected and traumatic death. How do they process and reconcile this information? Do they even have time to do so? Is there a universal process that people go through in a situation such as this? I wonder if they go through an accelerated version of the 7 grieving stages. I recently rented \ufffdOpen Water\ufffd, the movie about a couple who got left behind while scuba diving. The husband gets bit by a shark and eventually dies. Shortly after the wife submits to death and sinks under water, allowing herself to be eaten by sharks. It reminded me of the WTC victims who jumped from the towers. How do you get up the courage to submit to death? What makes some people submit and others fight to survive? Is it an issue of faith, or an issue of wanting to control ones own fate?
Post #203,072 by ben_tilly 4/12/05 5:19:14 PM Reply	You might gain insight... from reading accounts from people who came an inch from death and survived. Books like "Into thin air" and the like. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #203,096 by boxley 4/12/05 10:34:21 PM Reply	I have watched a spouse die she knew 3 days before, said she felt death coming on, she was afraid. I was totally useless as there was nothing medicine, money or guns could help her. Decided to stay shitfaced to cope. Her docs admonished me, being shitfaced with dengue fever leads to hallucinations, she went hard, what they feel is the world forgetting them, they fear it, I have spoken to her many times since, sometimes she replies with good advice when I am sleeping/dreaming fugue state. Her biggest fear was not for herself, but for left behinds, hope it helps. Dunno if others care/can add to that. Nov 17th 1984 bad fucking year. thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett [link\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/] Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #203,180 by bionerd 4/13/05 10:20:36 AM Reply	Thank you for that insight And I'm really sorry you both had to go through that. I imagine fearing for loved ones left behind is a universal feeling. Thinking about this reminds me to assess my own priorities. No one faces death wishing they spent more time at work, after all.
Post #203,100 by ChrisR 4/12/05 10:42:01 PM Reply	Dying's not so bad... ...I just don't want to be there when it happens. (woody, of course).
Post #203,145 by Ashton 4/13/05 5:08:03 AM Reply	8-billion people Question. The only generality I've settled on (since it is all by-definition hearsay) is ~ that the ones least likely to be flappable, especially under the unscheduled circumstances you mention -- are those who have arrived at a metaphysical 'supposition'? Realization? ___ by the time of the Event. Never heard of a case of last-minute mid-PANIC acquisition of Serenity. I suppose this might be in the ~ nature of 'faith' (too), though that's a sub-category of a one's internal matters. 1st-degree hearsay has revealed many stories of sages almost uniformly going-out with a smile, mainly while comforting the non-afflicted hovering about. Remember Gandhi's? (Not! "Oh God" per the Hollywood production -- but, while just Shot:remembering to say, Rama Rama Rama per Hindu Rxs.) It seems that few do. Remember, that is. Love. It. Ashton
Post #203,273 by Another Scott 4/13/05 8:21:39 PM Reply	"How We Die" might interest you. [link\|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679742441/002-9656141-4188002\|How We Die] by Sherwin B. Nuland. I can't answer your questions, but Nuland's book might help. Cheers, Scott.
Post #203,274 by tuberculosis 4/13/05 8:28:28 PM Reply	Having met more than a couple "dead" skydivers Both future dead and past (people who [link\|http://deadmike.com\|bounced] and survived as well as people saved by automatic opening devices that "froze"), I'd have to say that dread/denial/mourning stuff isn't usually in the description of their thoughts. Its more like acceptance/relaxation/release/amazement. This is the feeling I get immediately after leaving the aircraft. Just one big ahhhhhhhhh. Of course, many don't remember their "final" seconds. Many simply don't remember - they have sensory overload. This is common with early skydivers as well. They simply don't remember the dive. You can make faces, flip them off, fly up and french kiss them, they don't remember. Some of the ones who were saved by devices were simply peacefully amazed. Mesmerized. Not scared, just fascinated. Or they were totally unaware of their situation. One thing they all say is that the impact doesn't hurt. Waking up later is when the pain arrives. Of course, most jumpers already have a peculiar acceptance of their mortality. So maybe this isn't representative. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #203,284 by drewk 4/13/05 9:04:56 PM Reply	I must have adreneline deficiency I've done two jumps. Granted, they were tandems. But I was ... unimpressed? Don't know the exact word, but at a minimum it didn't live up to the expectation. I got a slight sense of butterflies in the stomache when I first swung my legs out the door, but once I was out ... nothing. Hey, cool view, but ... nothing. Maybe the fact that it was a tandem made it feel too much like a ride. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #203,292 by boxley 4/13/05 9:50:45 PM Reply	reminds me of narcosis underwater diving All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett [link\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/] Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #203,293 by broomberg 4/13/05 9:53:57 PM Reply	But that is directly physical based
Post #203,296 by boxley 4/13/05 10:12:39 PM Reply	not always, sometimes it just happens without a physical cause, low ambient light, a slow current moving sand under the divers eyes then it can onset. thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett [link\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/\|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/] Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #203,311 by ubernostrum 4/14/05 4:02:16 AM Reply	Judging from his site... I'd say Dead Mike suffered more brain damage than previously thought. Quoth the JavaScript alert: \r\n\r\n The Dead Mike site is best viewed with Inernet [sic] Explorer v4.0+ \r\n You are missing some really kewl stuff that I could only do in IE! \r\n You are being directed to a mostly equivalent Netscape version of my page. \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird? \r\n[link\|http://www.shtuff.us/\|shtuff]
Post #203,316 by andread 4/14/05 9:52:37 AM Reply	Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #203,483 by rcareaga 4/15/05 12:48:04 PM Reply	Death is nature's way of killing you.
Post #203,489 by Silverlock 4/15/05 1:45:17 PM Reply	<rimshot> ----------------------------------------- "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." -- H. L. Mencken Support our troops, Impeach Bush. D. D. Richards

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