Post #202,930
4/11/05 10:42:27 PM
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Make sure you have a friend with a video camera ...
[link|http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/12/nyregion/12video.html?hp&ex=1113278400&en=4d9abf3f02de567e&ei=5094&partner=homepage|NY Times] story on what's happened with the people arrested during the Republican National Convention in NYC last year: Dennis Kyne put up such a fight at a political protest last summer, the arresting officer recalled, it took four police officers to haul him down the steps of the New York Public Library and across Fifth Avenue.
"We picked him up and we carried him while he squirmed and screamed," the officer, Matthew Wohl, testified in December. "I had one of his legs because he was kicking and refusing to walk on his own."
Accused of inciting a riot and resisting arrest, Mr. Kyne was the first of the 1,806 people arrested in New York last summer during the Republican National Convention to take his case to a jury. But one day after Officer Wohl testified, and before the defense called a single witness, the prosecutor abruptly dropped all charges.
During a recess, the defense had brought new information to the prosecutor. A videotape shot by a documentary filmmaker showed Mr. Kyne agitated but plainly walking under his own power down the library steps, contradicting the vivid account of Officer Wohl, who was nowhere to be seen in the pictures. Nor was the officer seen taking part in the arrests of four other people at the library against whom he signed complaints.
A sprawling body of visual evidence, made possible by inexpensive, lightweight cameras in the hands of private citizens, volunteer observers and the police themselves, has shifted the debate over precisely what happened on the streets during the week of the convention.
For Mr. Kyne and 400 others arrested that week, video recordings provided evidence that they had not committed a crime or that the charges against them could not be proven, according to defense lawyers and prosecutors.
[...]
Seven months after the convention at Madison Square Garden, criminal charges have fallen against all but a handful of people arrested that week. Of the 1,670 cases that have run their full course, 91 percent ended with the charges dismissed or with a verdict of not guilty after trial. Many were dropped without any finding of wrongdoing, but also without any serious inquiry into the circumstances of the arrests, with the Manhattan district attorney's office agreeing that the cases should be "adjourned in contemplation of dismissal." I realize that this may be SOP in many places, but that doesn't mean people should continue to put up with crap like this. Heads should roll. Where's DRL when you need him for a good rant? Cheers, Scott.
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Post #202,931
4/11/05 11:01:30 PM
4/12/05 9:30:57 AM
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Just wait.
Filming a police officer in action will be declared a danger to the cop (bad guys will be able to identify him and strike off duty or some such bs); such evidence will become inadmissable in court.
Just wait.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning, As hopeless as it seems in the middle, Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Edited by imric
April 12, 2005, 09:30:57 AM EDT
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Post #202,966
4/12/05 5:13:23 AM
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Nice followup - Thanks!
I just realized that I had (then..) made a mental note {baad mistake - it deserved a Post-It} to find out just What you have so succinctly delved into. But then.. every fucking Day -- are more examples of the Rove - G\ufffdbbels Axis of Language Murder. Who can keep up, during The Fall?
The ongoing tragedy for all sentient Beings is, of course: that this story (too) is apt to be virtually non reported - but Nice that NYT is onto it.
Hypocrisy - the only True homo-sap Esperanto.
PS - I see that PBS Frontline is doing a program on Karl, Right Now. Hope it's not preaching-to-converted.
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Post #202,989
4/12/05 9:20:34 AM
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No one to bring the cop up on perjury? That's odd.
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179. I will not outsource core functions. -- [link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
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Post #202,994
4/12/05 9:50:43 AM
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Stick around...
Once all the wronged have had a chance to compare notes, some hotshot lawyer will start filing civil suits...and cost the city some serions money.
Perjury doesn't drive commerce....
jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #203,953
4/19/05 4:53:28 PM
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Bad assumption
You're assuming justice is the actual goal of the police.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #203,954
4/19/05 4:58:48 PM
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s/police/legal system/
The legal system should provide recourse against the excesses of individual policemen. In reality, alas...
Cheers, Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #203,955
4/19/05 5:01:21 PM
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Ok, rephrase
You're assuming that justice is the goal.
Note that the word of many many people was not enough. It wasn't until they were shown something that could be put on TV that justice was at least partially served.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #203,956
4/19/05 5:05:57 PM
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But will the rest of it be served?
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #203,960
4/19/05 6:16:07 PM
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The pie will not be served
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179. I will not outsource core functions. -- [link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
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Post #203,978
4/19/05 8:45:43 PM
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No PIE?!?
jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #203,980
4/19/05 9:04:56 PM
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Honor not like pie...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #203,965
4/19/05 6:58:38 PM
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Not relevant to the statement
but I personally doubt it. We live in a police state, doncha know.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #203,961
4/19/05 6:17:35 PM
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It only takes one person who wants to bring the cop down
(yes, the person should be a lawer or pay one enough money)
No lofty things like "goal" and "justice", just "grudge" and "satisfaction".
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179. I will not outsource core functions. -- [link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
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Post #203,967
4/19/05 7:08:57 PM
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That's not true
though my general unfamiliarity with the US justice system may falsify that statement.
Who lays criminal charges? Is anyone allowed to, or only the prosecutor's office? Here in Canada, the laying of criminal charges is under the sole purview of the Crown. However, that doesn't mean that it's under the sole purview of the state in your system.
Perjury, being a crime, would have to be brought forth by the Crown attorney here. Further, criminal law is the under the sole purview of the Federal level of the government, not the provinces: provinces do not and cannot lay criminal charges. I would imagine that it's similar there in that only the state (and not individuals) can lay criminal charges, but (IIUC) it's actually up in the air as to which level of the state can lay charges; for some things it's the Federal level, while for others the State level. So, in order for the policeman to be charged with perjury, the Attorney General of either the United States of America or the State of New York will have to decide that it's likely that the policeman would be indicted, that the policeman would be convicted, and finally that it's advisable to do so. This seems unlikely to come from the Federal level (after all, the policeman was basically acting on his behalf as a Republican when he was hassling the protestors, and given the general odour that Those Uppity Liberal Commie Pinko Faggot Professional Inciters are held by the junta in power), and unlikely from the State level as well (as the State Attorney General probably doesn't want to alienate the policeman's union, considering how dependent he is on evidence gathered by its members for the rest of his work).
Gotta realise the difference between civil and criminal law, you know, and perjury is a criminal matter, not a civil matter.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #203,997
4/20/05 9:18:36 AM
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I am not sure if perjury is criminal, but if it is
you are right. Who watches the effing watchers...
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179. I will not outsource core functions. -- [link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
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Post #204,003
4/20/05 9:21:20 AM
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Dunno about in the US
but it's definitely criminal code in Canada.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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