Post #20,212
12/4/01 1:57:17 PM
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W2K Terminal Services and Citrix
I am new to both W2K Server and Citrix. I just installed the trial version of Citrix Metaframe XP (which comes with no instructions since it's a trial version). Of course company wants up and running right away. After hours (days, really) spent at M$ and Citrix web sites get everything working enough so other work location can access applications and (part of the time) print. Users are happy, management is happy. I just knew it was too good to be true.
Management now wants to know why we even need Citrix. They want to look at just using Terminal Services. From what I understand, there is a lot of back-end configuration that needs to be done in Terminal Services that Citrix takes care of by itself. I also heard printing is a big problem, too.
Anyone have any very inexperienced users who are using Terminal Services? Is it a nightmare?
Thanks.
Jennifer
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Post #20,224
12/4/01 3:41:07 PM
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Re: W2K Terminal Services and Citrix
Terminal Services, by itself, only gives you remote desktops. I'm not clear on how printing works - I think that you can only print to printers that are managed on the server.
The added value that Metaframe brings is in these (undoubtedly incomplete) points:
1. You can remote just a single application window, and have it seamlessly integrate with the user's desktop. Naturally the application has to be aware that it's running remotely in this way. An example from personal experience is the Great Plains accounting system which...
2. ...obviously needs to print on the client's printers. Which Metaframe can do. This is a must for me, as the server is some 250 miles away and I'm not running ethernet cable that far for nobody :-)
3. You get a stack of management tools with Metaframe (as you're no doubt aware) that go quite a way beyond the "Disconnect this user" management of Terminal Services. You can do things like take control of a user's desktop, shadow them (i.e. observe them), load-balance across servers, that kind of thing.
In short, if all you want to do is print to network printers and give users a remote desktop, then Terminal Services will do, albeit in a clunky manner (profiles in particular need careful management). Anything more than that, you're looking at Metaframe.
Oh, and welcome to ZIWT :-)
Peter
Shill For Hire
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #20,272
12/4/01 8:24:17 PM
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Re: W2K Terminal Services and Citrix
Thanks for the info. You gave precisely the reasons I was looking for but could not find anywhere.
I appreciate the response and the welcome. I am new to network administration and posting to forums so thanks for being kind. Later on we can be rude and arrogant :)
Jennifer
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Post #20,312
12/5/01 9:45:34 AM
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You won't get very far in this forum with that attitude ;-)
You have to be rude and arrogant from the get go!!
Welcome aboard.
Brian Bronson
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Post #20,316
12/5/01 10:42:01 AM
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Sounds like you were expecting...
...us to pick on you for allowing MS solutions to exist...let alone actually wanting to figure out how (or if) they work ;-)
We're not that bad, mostly.
The rude and arrogant stuff usually happens in the Topical forums anyway. Stay down here in tech land and you'll be safe ;-)
Welcome to the Pleasuredome!
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #20,386
12/5/01 5:40:46 PM
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I can tell this my kind of place
thanks all
Jennifer
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Post #20,397
12/5/01 6:41:23 PM
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If you don't mind me asking...
...how did you find us?
Growing our membership at this point is an issue for us...
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post #20,425
12/5/01 9:28:03 PM
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Yes, we could really use new blood
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Post #21,181
12/12/01 1:52:53 PM
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A coworker posts here and says this is a great place
I told him I would post here if he didn't laugh at my questions. Of course, he laughs at my questions :). *wave*
He referred me because I am struggling with W2K server and said I would get reliable help here. (He probably wanted me to stop asking him.)
Sorry it took so long to get back. I am here for good. Thanks for asking.
Jennifer
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Post #21,201
12/12/01 3:23:46 PM
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Slap 'im one
If he laughs again.
And tell him it's from me :-)
Peter
Shill For Hire
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #21,226
12/12/01 5:42:15 PM
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Bitch
That is all. You are a silly, sorry, British bitch.
But we all knew that already.
-YendorMike
"The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by the skeptics or the cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need people who dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
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Post #21,228
12/12/01 5:48:37 PM
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Just ignore him, Peter
I do
and I like your attitude
Jennifer
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Post #21,229
12/12/01 6:06:50 PM
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Boys boys boys..
...Can we have a little maturity? I mean...a woman shows up and you 2 just can't seem to act civilized.
Besides...she like me best...so piss off! :-P
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #21,264
12/12/01 11:05:26 PM
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Aye, but....
...she works with me.
Besides, you're married. *pthb*
-YendorMike
"The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by the skeptics or the cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need people who dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
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Post #21,298
12/13/01 7:00:54 AM
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Pick pick pick
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #21,265
12/12/01 11:15:14 PM
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Woman?
I am 5' 10" computerdude... um, OK this isn't "Desperate and dateless" online. Sorry.
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."
-- Donald Knuth
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Post #20,352
12/5/01 1:49:46 PM
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The alternative
Heard this one from a friend who's setting up GNU/Linux systems for schools in Colorado, had a writeup in Wired. In their case, legacy MS Windows support was still necessary, but admin costs were high. The solution was: - Linux desktops running as diskless X clients
- Linux server, running multiple instances of Lin4Win.
- User "experience": running Windows from a centrally administered system, with high stability and low costs.
Not sure if this would be satisfactory for you, but it worked well in their case. Contact me for further info. --
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
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Post #20,547
12/6/01 7:11:21 PM
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VNC is a possible answer but for admin tools
if there is enough users get citrix.
thanx,
bill
tshirt front "born to die before I get old"
thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
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Post #20,622
12/7/01 8:12:12 AM
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Why VNC doesn't fit the bill (ahem, sorry)
VNC only remotes the actual displayed desktop of the target machine.
If you're already looking at Terminal Services, you need multiple remote desktop sessions.
Peter
Shill For Hire
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #20,727
12/7/01 8:42:45 PM
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wall under unix
I can setup multiple vnc logins that present individual xterms independant of the others all running different things, just assumed I could do it with windoze :(
thanx,
bill
tshirt front "born to die before I get old"
thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
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Post #20,804
12/8/01 8:50:32 PM
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...and why it does, properly configured
For running Windows sessions under Linux, VNC does wonders. You're already running individual sessions as seperate Linux processes. Ironically, Linux can serve Windows better than Windows can, in this sense. See also: [link|http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,45862,00.html|Wired: Penguin enrolls in US schools].
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
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Post #20,821
12/9/01 8:28:18 AM
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Maybe I'm missing something here
But you can't use VNC to turn a Windows server into a multi-user (interactive) box.
That's what Terminal Services does.
Peter
Shill For Hire
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #20,825
12/9/01 11:58:01 AM
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Yes, you are missing something
There are programs (eg win4lin, vmware) which allow you to run Windows under Linux. Given the design of Linux, what you can do once you can do many times at once. So you run VNC in each of those instances of Windows, and access these VNCs from other machines.
Voila! You now have a home-grown but substantially cheaper Terminal Services for Windows, implemented on top of Linux.
Cheers,
Ben
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Post #20,840
12/9/01 6:14:35 PM
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Er..
Do Billy n'Bally 'spect you to run a new copy of Winders on each open window ?? [umm Hah!]
I mean - it IS Ugly out there, no? :-\ufffd
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Post #20,843
12/9/01 6:57:50 PM
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Questions
1. You'd still have to buy separate Windows licences for each instance. At \ufffd200 per licence, that stacks up fairly fast. TS client licences are less than that. VMWare licences are also pricey. I've never investigated Win4Lin.
2. How would you manage such things as user profiles and printing? Administratively, this could be more frustrating than you think.
3. How would you manage the network access to these VNC instances via something like the VMWare Host networking? I know that you can have multiple VNC instances running, each one listening on a separate network port - how would you bridge this to each VMWare instance running VNC?
Peter
Shill For Hire
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #20,861
12/9/01 10:15:43 PM
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Licensing
Aye, there's the bugger. I'm not sure how that works out. Last I heard from my source, he'd had a chat with some folks from Redmond, in part discussing the licensing question. Not sure what the final resolution was.
Still, even with the licensing costs, administration of the systems is greatly simplified. You're running an image on top of Linux, with all the tools Linux provides to allow replication and restoration of that image.
Incidentally, a recent presentation I saw (autonomous computing) by IBM, there was mention of running various OS images on zSeries hardware, MS Windows included. Which makes me wonder if IBM's got that particular virtualization issue resolved.
Being able to seamlessly transmit and substitute images of proprietary and free OSs is going to do a fair bit to break up lock-in.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
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