Post #201,077
3/29/05 11:37:13 AM
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There are two questions here
"Is it a war?"
"How is it properly approached?"
The answers are largely independent.
For the first question, it takes two to have war, and it also takes two to not have it. Bin Laden repeatedly pronounced himself at war, and we really should listen to him.
The second question is currently answered your way by the majority of people in the West. It goes to the heart of the problem. We are not in the war mood. We attempt (or at least US government attempts) to make motions of war, without the popular support that the war needs.
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And what are we doing when the two most powerful nations on earth -- America and Israel -- stomp on the elementary rights of human beings?
-- letter to the editor from W. Ostermeier, Liechtenstein
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Post #201,080
3/29/05 11:42:44 AM
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And Bin Laden is, of course, why we have taken over Iraq.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #201,081
3/29/05 11:44:31 AM
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No, we did it for oil.
--
And what are we doing when the two most powerful nations on earth -- America and Israel -- stomp on the elementary rights of human beings?
-- letter to the editor from W. Ostermeier, Liechtenstein
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Post #201,086
3/29/05 11:53:45 AM
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Bin Laden can say what he likes.
Only nation states can go to war.
Peter
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Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #201,089
3/29/05 11:57:12 AM
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You can say what you like.
In the end, neither guns nor nation-states kill people. People kill people.
Two questions for you: Is Chechnia a nation-state? And, how do you think nation-states begin?
--
And what are we doing when the two most powerful nations on earth -- America and Israel -- stomp on the elementary rights of human beings?
-- letter to the editor from W. Ostermeier, Liechtenstein
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Post #201,093
3/29/05 12:01:52 PM
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What's that got to do with the price of cheese?
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #201,094
3/29/05 12:05:26 PM
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Bin Laden has an ambition to be the Emir
of all Faithful. The first time the Faithful were united, the Arab nation was born. The second time, the Ottoman Empire.
As for Chechnia, if you ask Russia, there is no such nation-state. Russia has been having the third Chechen War for what, 10 years now?
--
And what are we doing when the two most powerful nations on earth -- America and Israel -- stomp on the elementary rights of human beings?
-- letter to the editor from W. Ostermeier, Liechtenstein
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Post #201,097
3/29/05 12:09:42 PM
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The "Third Chechen War"
is not a war in the legal sense. There are many things that are called wars that are not wars in the legal sense. The Vietnam War and the Korean War would be two cases in point; neither of these were wars in the legal sense. In fact, the current war in Iraq is not a war in the legal sense; unless I missed it, Congress did not declare war on Iraq.
The controls and forms of war were put into place for a reason, after the Hundred Years War in Europe. These controls and forms were extended over the following centuries to put limits on what could be done. They are part of the West's claims to superiourity. We cannot abandon them without abandoning those claims.
The tragedy that is unfolding is that the west is becoming just like the people they condemn.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #201,105
3/29/05 12:24:04 PM
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Grrr...
Yes, yes, yes. None of them are wars in legal sense. Does not matter. The enemy does not care what your law says. They just want to kill you, or push you out of their territory, or conquer yours, or do whatever it is they want to do, using all tools that war puts at their disposal. Repeat, they don't give a flying fuck whether _you_ agree that you are at war. _They_ are.
Vietnam War is a perfect example of my "one-sided" war. Only one side thought itself to be at war (well, American soldiers knew they were at war, but soldiers usually do anyway).
Yes, West should learn (again) to fight people who do not feel bound by the "controls" of war. And yes, we're likely to lose "the West's claims to superiourity". Has not happened yet, the current US administration norwithstanding. It may take a dirty bomb in Manhattan, with dead in tens or hundreds of thousands. When it happens, all that we hear about West's aggression will turn true. Targeting of civilians, chemical weapons, mass torture - you name it. The dark ages will come again.
--
And what are we doing when the two most powerful nations on earth -- America and Israel -- stomp on the elementary rights of human beings?
-- letter to the editor from W. Ostermeier, Liechtenstein
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