In Virginia...

Post #199,560 by Another Scott 3/19/05 10:12:26 PM Reply	In Virginia... There are 2 ppm numbers: HC (hydrocarbons) and NO (nitrogen oxides). Some possible causes for high values are [link\|http://www.deq.virginia.gov/mobile/mobfail.html#tailpipe\|here]. I don't think a "racing coil" will do much for you. The stock coil on that engine is probably putting out plenty of voltage unless it's bad. You only need enough voltage to cause the plug to spark. My understanding is that racing coils are better at providing high enough voltages at high RPM - something that isn't the problem for your engine. If I'm reading your post right, you're having trouble at low RPM. I would think that was an indication of a mixture problem (O sensor? Vacuum leak? Injectors sticking?), a timing problem (you'd probably notice that in other ways), an EGR problem, or a catalytic converter problem, but I'm not an expert. In Virginia you only have to spend up to [link\|http://www.deq.virginia.gov/mobile/mobfaq.html#wsidimvf\|$620] to fix the problem - unless there's visible smoke. Smoke must be fixed no matter what the cost. I don't know what it's like in Georgia. It sounds like you're on the right track with your repairs. I hope you find the fix before you have to spend too much, like having to get a new catalytic converter. :-( Make sure you drive the car around a while before you get it tested again so that the catalyic converter is plenty hot. That'll help. HTH. Luck! Cheers, Scott.
Post #199,563 by boxley 3/19/05 10:24:09 PM Reply	well a racing coil produces a visible spark like the tip of a propane torch when lit at all rpm's this produces a "hotter" ignition explosion and "hopefully" burn all those little particles. I will need a heavy duty set of wires to contain the jolt. I will use plugs one heat range higher than recommended. I pass at normal "flat" driving, I am well withing range, its only during the uphill simulation do I fail. thanx., bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #199,568 by Another Scott 3/19/05 10:46:06 PM Reply	I still don't think it's necessary. :-) At low RPM the condensor/capacitor has more time to charge than at high RPM, so you'd get more spark when the points open (or when the equivalent happens with a pointless ignition system) than a higher RPM. A working coil should be fine. If you were having trouble at high RPM I'd think that might point toward the coil. To test your coil before you replace it, you might want to go through the suggestions [link\|http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/aa062902b.htm\|here]. "Uphill" is putting more load on the engine, making it work harder. I would also think that that points to something other than an electrical problem - e.g. fuel or mixture. How are your vacuum hoses? Have you got a gauge to see if the vacuum is OK? Good luck! Cheers, Scott.
Post #199,569 by boxley 3/19/05 10:58:39 PM Reply	you are correct with the uphill comment the coil is fine, I am trying to achieve hotter ignition. The car sat for about 13 months in a shop before I got it. There is no computer stuff that I am aware of in a 87 licoln towncar, fue usage doesnt seem bad but there is a slight miss, not continously just noticble sometimes. I may have a dead cylinder (hope not) but I think the plugs may be tired or grimy. The high endcoils make a difference if you have ever used one you would notice the difference [link\|http://jacobselectronics.com/MMYApplication.aspx?makeName=lincoln&modelName=town%20car&yearName=1987&modelDetailName=All%20Types\|http://jacobselectro...lName=All%20Types] cool stuff, thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #199,626 by CRConrad 3/20/05 6:15:16 PM Reply	Any heat comes from fuel-air mixture burning, not the spark. That spark is just supposed to ignite the fuel-air mix; that, the combustion, then provides the heat to break down any particles (if it even is the heat that does that). I never heard of such a thing as "hotter ignition" before this thread, and I doubt it even exists. Take Scott's advice and forget about the ignition system altogether; concentrate on getting the mixture right in stead. HTH! [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #199,635 by boxley 3/20/05 6:51:41 PM Reply	hotter ignition explained fuel air mixture is compressed spark starts explosion that pushes piston. Basic now if the initial spark is 10 time hotter than the standard spark the explosive reaction is faster and burn is more complete. [link\|http://searcht.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=racing+coils&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D570de6a4874dc279%26clickedItemRank%3D3%26userQuery%3Dracing%2Bcoils%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nology.com%252Fpowerdetails.html%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSCPSuggestion%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nology.com%2Fpowerdetails.html\|http://searcht.netsc...powerdetails.html] . Even though the saturation time is shorter, the theoretically available spark voltage is much higher as a result of the coil's much increased primary voltage. The higher primary energy supplied by the PowerCore coil amplifier also increases the secondary energy (spark energy) considerably. This hotter, more powerful spark ignites every fuel/air mixture much quicker, more reliably and more efficiently. Therefore increasing horsepower and torque, whereas fuel consumption and emissions are decreased. PowerCore is absolutely essential for high compression, and/or high revving engines, and all lean-burn applications. doesnt matter because no one local has the off the shelf breed that would fit my connectors, settled with new plugs, heavy solvent on the ERG valve and prayer, will find out tomorrow. thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #199,636 by CRConrad 3/20/05 7:00:21 PM 3/20/05 7:04:10 PM Reply	Sigh... That blather is from someone TRYING TO SELL you one! [Edit:] I i.e, don't believe it for a second, and I can't see why you do. Once you've got something burning, it burns. Doesn't matter if you ignited it "hotter" or not. Do you think your cigar would burn twice as fast if you ignited it with a match that was twice as hot as normal? [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown] Edited by CRConrad March 20, 2005, 07:04:10 PM EST Expand All History
Post #199,638 by boxley 3/20/05 7:07:45 PM Reply	I have used these products successfully Had a 1975 cordoba that would not pass emissions in Alaska because of low compression, put on a similar device, instead of groaning and knocking ran like a race car and passed emission test. It does work. thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #199,641 by Andrew Grygus 3/20/05 9:37:52 PM Reply	Well, if you ignited a couple inches it would . . . While I haven't used these things for over 3 decades they can improve ignition because the spark is fatter and ignites fuel in a larger volume - especially since the higher voltage allows you to increase the spark gap. If the flame front starts larger it does not consume the time a smaller flame front would take to get to that size. Since this is not linear but the surface area of an expanding volume it could be significant and could give time for a more thorough burn while compression is still high. In any case, if he has a miss, that'll most certainly increase particulate, so he needs to take all measures that could eliminate that miss (be sure to check timing), and the new plugs he's putting in are a good idea. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #199,642 by boxley 3/20/05 9:39:09 PM Reply	thanx! All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #199,649 by folkert 3/20/05 9:59:42 PM Reply	Typically, the higher the compression... and the higher the OCTANE of the fuel, the more CURRENT and VOLTAGE is needed to produce a good enough spark. The resistance to arc across a given distance gets harder and harder the more pressure there is. Also, the Longer a spark an last, the better/more consistent the flame front is going to be. Which ensures a more complete, measured complete burn. Since the Quench on most high compression motors come very quickly and is nearly perfect... the burn has to be complete, controlled and not too slow. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* [link\|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230\|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"] No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source]
Post #199,650 by Andrew Grygus 3/20/05 10:17:19 PM Reply	Yes, and compression is highest . . . . not at high rpms but low rpms and heavy load because with more time and a wide open throttle the downstroke can pull in the maximum amount of air. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]

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