Part of the trauma is because trauma is expected.

It all depends on what is taboo in your culture and what isnt.

Thou sayest, as did Andrew. So say I. Damn.. this should be in Gothic Gaudy.

In my view (of some decades more than the median age of this motley crewel) - that aspect transcends all the .. standard desperate or so often vicious responses to almost anything to do with sex and especially sex/children in the USA.
It ALL depends upon the mindset of the child!

Example from personal experience at ~ 9ish:
Movie theatre.
Guy maybe 25-35 in next seat (what does a 9 yo know about 'ages' of the ruling adult class?)
Guy makes overtures, all unspecific. To me: this is a strange critter. Curious, though, natch (an uncurious kid is a kid already nagged into submission, ready for a life as a chartered accountant).
Wants me to go with him to the john. Ah.. That kind of 'strange'?

They have urinals there. He proceeds to use one. Hmmm.. his member is all red; clear what he's been doing a lot of. OK, curiosity satisfied.
But in this case, the manipulatee becomes the manipulator. I may not yet have grokked the phrase, hit on, but I knew it when I saw it. So I said (so as to end any possibility of further attention) ~~ "Ummm, I noticed that usher looking at you. A lot." He was gone.

Trauma? Fear and loathing? Tendency to take-the-cloth and learn to molest all the young Christians, during their inculcation into becoming Penitent Young Sinners / despising all their natural impulses? Nahhh. Just life experience.

But then, I could not project that encounter into a 9 yo mindset -
already circumsized for no reason at all [thus desensitizing the glans for life - with all sorts of Interesting side-effects one can read about], catechismized at say, age 5 == already told, Don't Touch That Dirty Thing! (androgynous, that chestnut - it's used on girls too, I've heard) and the rest of the Puritan programming process.

I was spared that, and am forever grateful.. for the luck of drawing such a parent! I can guess about the demons though, via first-hand stories from the victims of Ashcroftian pecksniffery, and their self-induced suffering.

But for the Murican tads not spared the dreariness of a death-obsessed religious overlay on all experience: most of those will forget to read the pithier parts of their Manual (like, Judge not lest ye.. and Vengeance is Mine, saith She) .. and I suppose that many of these shall naturally want to Kill The Bastards. (It's such a Murican response to any crisis. Indians earlier, then Gooks ... currently dead Iraqi men, women, children and donkeys. NK, Iran, Syria next?)

Want neurotic adults? Simple: fuck with their minds about 'God'; make em Promise to Obey Her -- ages before they have the foggiest W.T.F. that supernatural stuff is all about; eons before they learn just how ill-informed were mummy n'daddy too. Teach 'em that, like AL Capp's Schmoos, They. Are. Born. Guilty. of

A) Eating an apple [allegory Alert] == wanting to Know (the dimensions of their cage).
B) Killing ~~Kenny~~ Gawd's Little Boy, JC.
C) Enjoying any of their bodily functions very-much.

Rest case. Too late to kill all the priests; they're now everywhere - even the White House War Room. Besides - the lawyers have all the reserved spots. After all, we are Materialists first; sanctimony always has to take second place to $ matters.. always.

Luck with -your- kid.
I sympathize with any parent, but especially with anyone doing it the 100% Murican way.
Bet you'll be fine :-\ufffd

Post #195,934 by Andrew Grygus 2/22/05 11:47:03 AM Reply	Part of the trauma is because trauma is expected. I'm not saying that trauma isn't real and shouldn't be taken seriously under the current social norms - I just think the current norms are a little "abnormal", tending to hysteria. Of course, I don't at all object to hanging predatory molesters. It's the milder incidental things that seem so over-done. Disclaimer: I am not a child molester. I have, however, read plenty about other non-molesters who's lives have been destroyed by false accusations extracted from children under stressful interrogation - so I literally will have nothing to do with children. It's just comon sense. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #195,945 by bionerd 2/22/05 12:31:29 PM Reply	I thought about that, too. It all depends on what is taboo in your culture and what isnt. I think you brought up the ancient greeks- Men having sex with boys was part of their culture. It was accepted by society so there was no guilt and probably very little trauma. "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers."
Post #195,956 by ben_tilly 2/22/05 1:19:51 PM Reply	Furthermore there was less sex than is believed In that culture, anal sex was something that one did with slaves. The encounters between adult men and boys apparently were seen as romantic, but not did not generally include certain activities. I still have trouble believing that the boys did not come out with what we'd consider emotional scars from the experience, but I'll readily believe that they came out with less scarring than a boy in our culture who had the same experience would be expected to have from it. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #196,009 by daemon 2/22/05 6:21:49 PM Reply	look at the british upper class for an example may you go in beauty
Post #196,011 by Andrew Grygus 2/22/05 6:32:18 PM Reply	Is that why a gay couple I used to know . . . . referred to their bed as "The playing fields of Eton"? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #196,013 by daemon 2/22/05 7:02:22 PM Reply	exactemundo may you go in beauty
Post #196,171 by Ashton 2/24/05 3:58:47 AM Reply	Re: I thought about that, too. It all depends on what is taboo in your culture and what isnt. Thou sayest, as did Andrew. So say I. Damn.. this should be in Gothic Gaudy. In my view (of some decades more than the median age of this motley crewel) - that aspect transcends all the .. standard desperate or so often vicious responses to almost anything to do with sex and especially sex/children in the USA. It ALL depends upon the mindset of the child! Example from personal experience at ~ 9ish: Movie theatre. Guy maybe 25-35 in next seat (what does a 9 yo know about 'ages' of the ruling adult class?) Guy makes overtures, all unspecific. To me: this is a strange critter. Curious, though, natch (an uncurious kid is a kid already nagged into submission, ready for a life as a chartered accountant). Wants me to go with him to the john. Ah.. That kind of 'strange'? They have urinals there. He proceeds to use one. Hmmm.. his member is all red; clear what he's been doing a lot of. OK, curiosity satisfied. But in this case, the manipulatee becomes the manipulator. I may not yet have grokked the phrase, hit on, but I knew it when I saw it. So I said (so as to end any possibility of further attention) ~~ "Ummm, I noticed that usher looking at you. A lot." He was gone. Trauma? Fear and loathing? Tendency to take-the-cloth and learn to molest all the young Christians, during their inculcation into becoming Penitent Young Sinners / despising all their natural impulses? Nahhh. Just life experience. But then, I could not project that encounter into a 9 yo mindset - already circumsized for no reason at all [thus desensitizing the glans for life - with all sorts of Interesting side-effects one can read about], catechismized at say, age 5 == already told, Don't Touch That Dirty Thing! (androgynous, that chestnut - it's used on girls too, I've heard) and the rest of the Puritan programming process. I was spared that, and am forever grateful.. for the luck of drawing such a parent! I can guess about the demons though, via first-hand stories from the victims of Ashcroftian pecksniffery, and their self-induced suffering. But for the Murican tads not spared the dreariness of a death-obsessed religious overlay on all experience: most of those will forget to read the pithier parts of their Manual (like, Judge not lest ye.. and Vengeance is Mine, saith She) .. and I suppose that many of these shall naturally want to Kill The Bastards. (It's such a Murican response to any crisis. Indians earlier, then Gooks ... currently dead Iraqi men, women, children and donkeys. NK, Iran, Syria next?) Want neurotic adults? Simple: fuck with their minds about 'God'; make em Promise to Obey Her -- ages before they have the foggiest W.T.F. that supernatural stuff is all about; eons before they learn just how ill-informed were mummy n'daddy too. Teach 'em that, like AL Capp's Schmoos, They. Are. Born. Guilty. of A) Eating an apple [allegory Alert] == wanting to Know (the dimensions of their cage). B) Killing ~~Kenny~~ Gawd's Little Boy, JC. C) Enjoying any of their bodily functions very-much. Rest case. Too late to kill all the priests; they're now everywhere - even the White House War Room. Besides - the lawyers have all the reserved spots. After all, we are Materialists first; sanctimony always has to take second place to $ matters.. always. Luck with -your- kid. I sympathize with any parent, but especially with anyone doing it the 100% Murican way. Bet you'll be fine :-\ufffd The believer is happy. The doubter is wise. Hungarian proverb

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