Are you all crazy?

Post #194,816 by Arkadiy 2/15/05 4:15:59 PM Reply	Are you all crazy? He doesn't post that often, and he does not get involved in protracted discussions, but he is a legitimate poster. Spam is disagreable, but not everything disagreable is spam. If you want to turn this placed into OBAOL-metoo palace, count me out. -- - I was involuntarily self-promoted into management. [link\|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484\|Richard Stallman]
Post #194,819 by pwhysall 2/15/05 4:27:24 PM Reply	He's interested in one thing: pagerank. Hence the link-and-then-bugger-off routine. Any time I read "...continued at blogger.com" I know I'm in the presence of a pagerank-acquiring git. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #194,838 by SpiceWare 2/15/05 4:59:53 PM Reply	not done in every post while every post I make links to my site. Darrell Spice, Jr. [link\|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass\|Artistic Overpass]\n[link\|http://www.spiceware.org/\|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
Post #194,842 by inthane-chan 2/15/05 5:31:57 PM Reply	Ah, but is the point of your post... ...the link to the external site? In your case, it isn't. In his, it is. "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our disposal hundred megawatt laser beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his 'SMITE' button for our fire control system."
Post #194,845 by Another Scott 2/15/05 5:53:40 PM Reply	It's hard to read motives. I don't think we get enough traffic here, at least on political things as opposed to SSL on the AS/400, for someone to think that they'll get much additional traffic from posting links here. Surely posting on DailyKos or Rush's blog (if it exists) would be more appropriate if he were after pageranks or something for his political discussion. I could be wrong though. The recent WTC thread makes me wonder... Anyway, I think that marlowe might well post synopses here and encourage discussion elsewhere as a convenience for him. Rather like people who requested e-mail responses to questions on Usenet. Yes it's rude to others in most circumstances, but it's not necessarily nefarious. I doubt that marlowe is getting much in the way of notoriety or income from his blog(s). marlowe rubs lots of people the wrong way. He rarely responds to criticism of his posts here anymore except to use broad-brush rants against his conception of the left. It's unfortunate. But he doesn't post much here anymore as it is. I don't think that more needs to be done than simply ignore him if (generic) you don't like his contributions. I haven't seen anything worth banning his posts thus far. I agree with Arkadiy that this place would be very bland if people didn't feel reasonably free to speak their mind. Monocultures are bad in politics just as they are in operating systems. Advocates on both sides should be able to present their views, even if they're stupid. ;-) I think that at least one of the regulars has been shouted down far too often and subsequent discussion here has suffered greatly for it. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #194,850 by rcareaga 2/15/05 6:23:13 PM Reply	What A.S. said While I wouldn't miss marlowe for a minute were he to choke to death on his own bullshit, his drivebys are both infrequent and ineffectual (rather like having spitballs lobbed in one's direction from the other side of an eight-lane freeway), and he has left off with the silly "quagmire" graphic—though this was probably for reasons other than a tender consideration for the members on dialup connections. Few of us, I daresay, are seduced by his posts into following the screeds back to their source at Angelfire. He's harmless. I vote against the punitive treatment that's been proposed. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #194,990 by Nightowl 2/16/05 1:15:01 PM Reply	I concur with Rcareaga Marlowe is relatively harmless. If you think he's trying to lead you back to his site, don't go. Heck, I never do. Meanwhile, he has calmed down considerably and doesn't rant nearly like he used to, and sometimes he even says something that makes you think. Who'da thunk it, The Owl defending Marlowe... Nightowl >8# "The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
Post #194,996 by pwhysall 2/16/05 1:32:30 PM Reply	It's not about the going... ...it's the linking. It's obnoxious. It's spam. It's trolling, because he's not actually interested in participation. If you want to talk here, talk here. If that's too much trouble, bugger off. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #194,999 by Andrew Grygus 2/16/05 1:41:27 PM Reply	I am not in favor of discipline as proposed. Sure he can be annoying at times but if you ban everyone who fits that description you aren't going to have many posting here. He does do a bit of "drive by", but often comes back to respond in a day or so - maybe he's busy. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #195,001 by pwhysall 2/16/05 1:58:54 PM Reply	Actually... ...if you ban everyone who fits that description, you'd ban Marlowe. Full stop. I'm not in favour of banning him. I'm in favour of deleting his spam. Now, I'm pragmatic; I'm aware that this is a fairly hypothetical discussion. As it stands, Marlowe's posts are not going to be deleted. However, that should not preclude this discussion. And to those who think that zapping Marlowe's droppings like the spamming trollbug turds that they are would lead to a groupthinkAOLmetooquagmire, well lookee here. I'm disagreeing with you RIGHT NOW. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #195,017 by ben_tilly 2/16/05 2:51:45 PM Reply	Ah, right You're from a country which doesn't believe, even in theory, that "freedom of speech" deserves protection. I need reminding of that sometimes. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #195,019 by pwhysall 2/16/05 2:54:08 PM Reply	Don't be smarmy. It's not becoming. I refer you to Todd's passport-confiscation story for how free speech is in the US of A. "Might Be Harmful", ya see... Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #195,021 by ben_tilly 2/16/05 3:05:03 PM Reply	I said "even in theory" In theory, in the USA, we have freedom of speech. Whatever the practice may be. The UK doesn't subscribe to the theory, though in some respects the practice may be better. Regards, Ben PS I grew up in Canada, which is in the same position as the UK on this topic. I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #195,028 by jake123 2/16/05 3:12:01 PM Reply	No it's not I refer you to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, notwithstanding clause notwithstanding. 'Course, when did you leave... was it before or after '80? --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #195,043 by ben_tilly 2/16/05 5:57:00 PM Reply	I left in the 90's And I clearly remember, after I left, that it was routine for there to be court cases in which judges would say that stories were not allowed to be reported on in Canada. Glancing at the Charter, the first clause is an exemption that you could drive a Mack truck through, and undoubtably the cases of court muzzling that I remember were so driven. That is, the government is free to erect any limitations on the rights guaranteed in the Charter as long as they can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. I'm sure that Bush, Ashcroft and Co. would love it if the US system had a blanket exemption as big as that one (particularly if you can get your case heard by a friendly judge). I stand by my statement. Canada does not, even in theory, uphold the principle of freedom of speech. The USA definitely does that in theory, and has been known to do it in very painful and embarrasing practice. (eg The Pentagon Papers for one example, or for another, instructions for how to build hydrogen bombs.) Sincerely, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #195,046 by jake123 2/16/05 6:03:20 PM Reply	Hey, publication bans happen all the time in the US too The point being that they're temporary, not permanent. It's very unusual for them to be made permanent, with the exception of sexual abuse cases involving minors (or indeed any case involving minors). However, during a trial sometimes things are banned from publication until after a jury reaches a verdict to avoid polluting a jury. Afterwards, the entire transcript will be published, and anybody who cares to can go down to the courthouse and read it. The cases you heard about were almost universally because the newspapers in question didn't want to have to wait. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #195,048 by ben_tilly 2/16/05 6:44:35 PM Reply	They do? Examples, please. As I understand it, a judge can decide whether or not to permit reporters in the court, and can try to get reporters to agree to specific conditions. However judges can't tell reporters that they cannot tell people about a case, and cannot keep reporters who happen to hear details from reporting them. By contrast in Canada judges may say that they don't want something reported, and nobody is allowed to report it. Period. Furthermore my impression of how common permanent publication bans are is different from yours. Specifically I understand that it is rare for an entire case to not be reportable (excepting cases involving minors - and there are lots of those), but fairly frequently a small portion of a case is permanently banned (eg testimony from family members about how much grief they went through, which doesn't affect whether the verdict is guilty, but may affect sentencing). Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #195,053 by ben_tilly 2/16/05 6:59:50 PM Reply	Another amusing point about the charter Canada is (unlike the USA) explicitly founded on principles that recognize the supremacy of God, but grants freedom of religion. In the USA state non-interference in religion is an absolute. As someone who does not believe that God exists, which do you think I prefer reading? Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #195,252 by jake123 2/17/05 6:20:13 PM Reply	God is undefined in the charter --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #195,322 by pwhysall 2/18/05 12:39:57 AM Reply	...unless declared integer :-) Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #195,352 by jake123 2/18/05 8:28:03 AM Reply	I always figured she was a float(er). --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #195,358 by admin 2/18/05 9:33:41 AM Reply	No, gotta be something with arbitrary precision... Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #195,359 by jake123 2/18/05 9:34:59 AM Reply	Floaters are arbitrary when you have infinite bit length. Esp. when they're making fashion decisions. They really ARE arbitrary then. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #195,035 by Arkadiy 2/16/05 4:32:37 PM Reply	Oh please "Never pick a fight with people who buy inc by the barrel" Somebody in Customs is in a lot of hurt now. A whole lot of somebodies, I'd think. -- - I was involuntarily self-promoted into management. [link\|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484\|Richard Stallman]
Post #195,038 by jake123 2/16/05 5:13:15 PM Reply	No they're not. That's not how customs works. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #194,827 by inthane-chan 2/15/05 4:34:39 PM Reply	What Peter said. Note that if he actually showed interest in continuing conversations here, instead of his hit-n-run style, I wouldn't call him like this. This behavior is new, and is designed apparently to drive traffic to his blog. If any other member did this, I'd call it the same. "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our disposal hundred megawatt laser beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his 'SMITE' button for our fire control system."
Post #194,837 by Silverlock 2/15/05 4:59:09 PM Reply	You think his posts are really more than flamebait? ----------------------------------------- "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." -- H. L. Mencken
Post #194,965 by Arkadiy 2/16/05 11:53:09 AM Reply	It may be a flamebait but not spam. I don't think he is after page ranks - about half of my posts are a link with tiny commentary, and I know I am not after page ranks. -- - I was involuntarily self-promoted into management. [link\|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484\|Richard Stallman]
Post #194,966 by pwhysall 2/16/05 11:57:00 AM Reply	Key point: They're not links to your blog. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #194,969 by Arkadiy 2/16/05 12:01:03 PM Reply	So he prefers to keep his thoughts in his own place while not abandoning the old crowd and the old arguments he's been fighting for years. So what? -- - I was involuntarily self-promoted into management. [link\|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484\|Richard Stallman]
Post #194,991 by Nightowl 2/16/05 1:17:06 PM Reply	I agree there too As someone who runs several groups and now has some split off from the main one, it's tiresome and time-consuming to repeat the same post in five places or more, even with cut and paste. Therefore I understand leading people back to the one place and the one posting. As I said before, if you think all he is after are visits to his site, just don't go. If we aren't serving his purpose anymore, (if that turns out to be his reasoning), he'll quit, won't he? Brenda Nightowl >8# "The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
Post #194,848 by pwhysall 2/15/05 6:11:58 PM Reply	Also. I give you Moffitt. I give you Patient. These two ALONE should be enough to destroy any notion of AOLesque me-tooism here. Plus the fact that I think you're all raving right-wing nutters and that America would make a nice car park for Canada and Britain. [0] But I love you :-) Marlowe's goal is to disrupt, to annoy, to generate a response. It's attention-seeking behaviour, and what better attention than pagerank? More content is not necessarily better. I find the current level of posting too much to keep up with some days. Marlowe's "contribution" is a net negative, IMHO. [0] Put down those jingo bells, chaps. It's a joke. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #195,259 by jb4 2/17/05 6:44:12 PM Reply	Hrmm Plus the fact that I think you're all raving right-wing nutters and that America would make a nice car park for Canada and Britain. Wouldn't help you, Peter...you're too busy being stuck in roundabouts to worry about where you're gonna park once you get out of them... ;-) jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT

Welcome to IWETHEY!