Why religion should be kept out of the public schools.

Post #194,422 by Another Scott 2/13/05 10:06:33 AM Reply	Why religion should be kept out of the public schools. [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17602-2005Feb11.html\|Mary Clay Berry] in the Washington Post: A recent news story in The Post about weekly Bible classes for public elementary school students in Staunton, Va., and the challenge some parents have brought against the practice, reminded me of my own experiences with religious education in public school. From 1946 through 1948, I went to an elementary school in rural Kentucky. One morning a week, school began an hour late so that students could attend Bible school at local churches. Bible school was voluntary, although, according to the town newspaper, 99 percent of the students attended. [...] What concerns me is the coercion involved in these seemingly well-intentioned events in the context of public school, something I could not avoid. The object was to prod me into Bible Belt Christianity, regardless of my own or my family's beliefs. [...] Peer pressure and pressure from teachers cannot be avoided in school. Religion should be kept separate from the public schools for this (and other) reasons. Cheers, Scott.
Post #194,426 by daemon 2/13/05 11:14:23 AM Reply	All religion or just one :-) I love her dearly, far beyond any creature I've ever known, and I can prove it, for never once in almost seventy years of married life have I taken her by the throat. Mind you, it's been a near thing once or twice. George Macdonald Frasier Clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #194,430 by Another Scott 2/13/05 11:41:25 AM Reply	Depends on the context. Carefully crafted comparative religion classes would be fine in, say, high school. Encoraging attendance of a particular type of church or temple or mosque or "reading room" should be prohibited. And children who don't believe in any other type of theism should not be stigmatized or indoctrinated either. The simplest way to avoid that is to keep religion out of schools except in a carefully crafted comparative context. And I'll go farther than that: Schools should not encorage attendance or association with any particular non-school association. They shouldn't encorage participation in the Boy Scouts as opposed to the Boys Clubs. They shouldn't encorage participation in Habitat for Humanity as opposed to the Audubon Society. They shouldn't encorage participation in 4H as opposed to a Junior Chamber of Commerce. Students should be free to participate in service groups that best match their interests. Schools should encorage children to become members of groups that improve communities and society. They should not be exclusive about that encoragement. That goes triple for religion, IMO, because there's so much baggage with it. Cheers, Scott.
Post #194,539 by Arkadiy 2/14/05 10:18:37 AM Reply	What a whimp! "The object was to prod me into Bible Belt Christianity, regardless of my own or my family's beliefs." "I looked around, then raised my hand, too." "I wanted to be accepted." If you have beliefs, is showing up an hour late such a terrible price to pay for having them? Soft-skinned little prick. "No harm should ever befall memememe. And if you so much as look at me the wrong way, you're doing me harm already. You know, potential harm. Or emotional harm. Or something." -- - I was involuntarily self-promoted into management. [link\|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484\|Richard Stallman]
Post #194,540 by mmoffitt 2/14/05 10:21:32 AM Reply	And I bet you railed against the picture of Illych over every chalkboard, didn't you? bcnu, Mikem Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer. God Bless America.
Post #194,545 by Arkadiy 2/14/05 10:27:36 AM Reply	No, I was the class' pioneer commander It takes time to overcome the programming. The article's author had nothing to overcome. And she had parents ready to support her. And her worst punishment was to be lonely. How many people here were lonely in high school? -- - I was involuntarily self-promoted into management. [link\|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484\|Richard Stallman]
Post #194,557 by mmoffitt 2/14/05 11:43:50 AM Reply	So, I as taxpayer, get to subsidize Bible School? Or don't you think that if I pay for a full day's instruction, I should get a full day's instruction? bcnu, Mikem Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer. God Bless America.
Post #194,559 by Arkadiy 2/14/05 11:48:38 AM Reply	Who says that they did not finish an hour late? And, even if they did not, it's a waste of money, not a subsidy. -- - I was involuntarily self-promoted into management. [link\|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484\|Richard Stallman]
Post #194,599 by bepatient 2/14/05 3:38:10 PM Reply	Yawn. Can you be more reactionary? If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #194,672 by daemon 2/14/05 8:29:12 PM Reply	why not? Doc's taxes go to your kids, the way it works you want to pay for the education you want? Private school. Doenst Indianer have any Patrice Lulumba U's? [link\|http://www.ceebd.co.uk/ceeed/un/ru/ru042.htm\|http://www.ceebd.co....d/un/ru/ru042.htm] regards, daemon I love her dearly, far beyond any creature I've ever known, and I can prove it, for never once in almost seventy years of married life have I taken her by the throat. Mind you, it's been a near thing once or twice. George Macdonald Frasier Clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #194,691 by ben_tilly 2/14/05 9:24:55 PM Reply	Because the Constitution says that I shouldn't I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #194,694 by daemon 2/14/05 10:08:13 PM Reply	Constitution doesnt mention charity or pensions either yet we spend a boatload on it. regards, daemon I love her dearly, far beyond any creature I've ever known, and I can prove it, for never once in almost seventy years of married life have I taken her by the throat. Mind you, it's been a near thing once or twice. George Macdonald Frasier Clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #194,699 by jake123 2/14/05 10:31:47 PM Reply	Yeah, and it does specifically mention religion saying the state shouldn't spend a dime on it. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #194,701 by daemon 2/14/05 10:33:46 PM Reply	ya wanna point that out? the specific part that sez local governments (not the feds) cannot fund any religious organizations? Wanna buy a bridge across the St Lawrence, hardly used and the income is pretty good. regards, daemon "I am not scared of al Qaeda, I am scared of fucking al Cracker sayeth Chris Rock
Post #194,702 by jake123 2/14/05 10:54:05 PM Reply	Ah, local. That could be different. Are local govs creatures of the state level, or are they truly an independent level of government? --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #194,703 by Another Scott 2/14/05 11:05:35 PM Reply	They're independent. But they are constrained ... by the Constitution too through the 14th Amendment and the interpretation of the Supreme Court. More at the [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment\|Wikipedia]. Cheers, Scott.
Post #194,752 by ubernostrum 2/15/05 10:52:39 AM Reply	And remember that this is Virginia. All the local levels are answerable to the state government. \r\n\r\n But... \r\n\r\n The Commonwealth of Virginia is the only place in the US which makes common practice of having independent cities, so it'll be interesting to see how jurisdictional issues play out in any legal challenges. For example, some of the kids involved apparently live in Staunton -- which is an independent city -- but any of them who are outside the city limits (say, in a neighboring town) instead have to deal with the government of Augusta County. --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird? \r\n[link\|http://www.shtuff.us/\|shtuff]
Post #194,607 by ubernostrum 2/14/05 4:01:19 PM Reply	Re: Why religion should be kept out of the public schools. I live in southwest Virginia, and I've half a mind to call the local social services and have some kids taken into the custody of the state; apparently parents in Staunton are incapable of teaching their kids morals and incapable of sending them to Sunday school as well, hence the need to shuttle them from school to church. Not a good environment to raise children in, if you ask me... --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird? \r\n[link\|http://www.shtuff.us/\|shtuff]

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