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New Interesting Abu Ghraib commentary
[link|http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/zimbardo05/zimbardo05_index.html|Edge]
When you put that set of horrendous work conditions and external factors together, it creates an evil barrel. You could put virtually anybody in it and you're going to get this kind of evil behavior. The Pentagon and the military say that the Abu Ghraib scandal is the result of a few bad apples in an otherwise good barrel. That's the dispositional analysis. The social psychologist in me, and the consensus among many of my colleagues in experimental social psychology, says that's the wrong analysis. It's not the bad apples, it's the bad barrels that corrupt good people. Understanding the abuses at this Iraqi prison starts with an analysis of both the situational and systematic forces operating on those soldiers working the night shift in that 'little shop of horrors.'

YOU CAN'T BE A SWEET CUCUMBER IN A VINEGAR BARREL
A Talk with Philip Zimbardo

Zimbardo is basicly making the point that the soldiers in Abu Ghraib where put in an impossible situation themselves. They where vastly over worked, living in conditions only slightly better then the prisoners, and told to soften the prisoners up. In such a situation, the vast majority of people would begin to abuse the prisoners.

This doesn't excuse their behavior at all, they still deserve to be court martialed. But I do think it plays into the excessive penalties being brought against them. The gaurds are being hit hard to avoid having to charge anybody further up the chain, and it is those people that are ultimatly the most responsible.

Jay
New Sorry, but.....plus \ufffda change, plus c'est la m\ufffdme chose
From Wikpedia...

"Calley claimed that he was following orders from his captain, Ernest Medina; Medina denied giving the orders and was acquitted at a separate trial. Most of the soldiers involved in the My Lai incident were no longer enlisted. Of the 26 men initially charged, Lt. Calley's was the only conviction."



New I wonder how many Muricans recall 'Calley' at all
Is it still hypocrisy.. when your attention span is shorter daily (and you never read any history anyway?)



What a cesspool these Neoconmen have built. Watching the soft-spoken Perle, Wolfowitz entone their dreamweaving in 'polite' interviews is ... a softly-hideous event. (But when one contemplates how effective these soothing monologues are amidst the gullible.. There are no words.)
New Have you learned your lesson?
"Our aim has not been to assign individual blame," the report said. "Our aim has been to provide the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9/11 and to identify lessons learned."

[link|http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/02/06/MNGOUB59CP1.DTL|http://www.sfgate.co...6/MNGOUB59CP1.DTL]


And therein lies the lesson. Quite an education, eh?
New Hmm.
Looks to me like they figured they had zero chance of pinning that on anybody believable that wouldn't immediately squeal out on the people at the top of the stovepipe. In short, no personal loyalty and prolly a lot of contempt from the foot soldier for the generals in that particular field of endeavour.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Cynicism is when you expect the worst from most folks, willy
-nilly.
Unclear what you call it when your expectations are based upon an unbroken record.

This is the first admin which has been elected (well, at least once, depending) on a platform of Strict Unaccountability: they need not 'lie', hoping to get away with some blunder; it's Expected.


Love. It.
     Interesting Abu Ghraib commentary - (JayMehaffey) - (5)
         Sorry, but.....plus \ufffda change, plus c'est la m\ufffdme chose - (dmcarls) - (4)
             I wonder how many Muricans recall 'Calley' at all - (Ashton) - (3)
                 Have you learned your lesson? - (dmcarls) - (2)
                     Hmm. - (jake123) - (1)
                         Cynicism is when you expect the worst from most folks, willy - (Ashton)

My pain became my strength I am reborn I'm deaf not dumb lest you forget.
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