Post #191,778
1/26/05 4:44:49 PM
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This is what "moral values" means.
Ethics don't matter one hoot. Deception, Bullying, Lying and Greed is the "Conservative Way" - only homosexual marriage and abortion are sins. If the Christians don't start loudly disowning this administration that shouts it's "Christian Values" to wild cheering, then it's the "Christian Way" too - by default and general agreement.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #191,784
1/26/05 5:12:53 PM
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More Crap.
This is the American Way, since not 'enough' Americans have not objected loudly enough. And YOU are an American.
If Americans started to CLAIM they were really from Mars, would that make them Martians? Would this be the 'Martian Way'?
Really, Andrew. Qualify your statements. Call them NeoChristians, Christocrytes, NeoCon-Christians, whatever - don't tar the whole group with the same brush; it's WRONG, and not just morally. For example, you tar my fundamentalist Christian ex when you do - and she's as outraged over the Neocon takeover as anyone here - and for many of the same reasons. She is VERY vocal on the subject, as well. This goes for her study group and fellow worshippers too.
If you want to jump on the bandwagon to bash an entire group for the actions of an amoral and criminal few, though, fine. Take the easy way. Take the 'American Way'.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #192,066
1/28/05 2:31:37 AM
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Huh?
He's not saying that it is the Christian way because Christians haven't complained. He says that it will be the Christian way if Christians don't start complaining and let this administration's actions stand along with the statement that they reflect Christian Values.
I see that as a fairly reasonable statement (for some definition of Christian) and also agree with the parallel comment about America and American way.
And if the American way is not what we Americans want, well we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #192,081
1/28/05 7:14:00 AM
1/28/05 9:41:45 AM
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For some definition of Christian
I could wish the "set of all who call themselves Christian" actually acted like followers of Christ myself.
I've gotten sensitive to those who assume or imply that Christians are typified by the neocons or other nutjobs. I have no problem with qualifying "christians" somehow to refer to the bad element.
I've heard 'Christians' blamed too many times for the mess in DC. Christians also voted against war, against economic suicide, and for responsibility. They DO protest loudly against the neocons. Was there an appeal to ignorant and intolerant Christians? Yes. Was it instrumental in getting the gang in charge in DC and around the country? Undoubtedly.
Note that I qualified my set.
'The ignorant and intolerant' elements intersect many other sets - one might argue that without that element among non-Christians who voted for Bush, he would not have won. Does that mean I can say that the Neocon Way is the 'Way' of 'Non-Christians'?
No. That falsley demonizes an entire set for the actions of a subset.
THAT'S what I've gotten sensiitive too. That's what started to REALLY annoy me.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Edited by imric
Jan. 28, 2005, 09:41:45 AM EST
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Post #192,087
1/28/05 9:16:44 AM
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Who get's the airtime?
When the whackjobs are almost the exclusive representative seen in the SCLM, It's not hard to understand why some would assume that since little to no objections to their stance are forthcoming, they must in fact BE representative.
-----------------------------------------
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."
-- H. L. Mencken
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Post #192,092
1/28/05 9:40:02 AM
1/28/05 9:41:04 AM
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*shrug*
Oh well.
I guess perception matters more than reality.
Whoever shouts loudest must be shouting the truth.
Logic loses to propaganda.
And quantity beats quality.
THIS is the 'Amerika' that is being built on the gravesite of the Great Experiment.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Edited by imric
Jan. 28, 2005, 09:41:04 AM EST
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Post #192,378
1/31/05 4:19:31 PM
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By Jove I think he's got it!
Clearly, all you just said is true.
There's really no other explanation for this fix.
And it seems to have worked in the election.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #192,383
1/31/05 5:09:32 PM
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If those that supposedly opposed
building Amerika on those 'principles' now embrace them - then the neocons really DO have a mandate.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #192,395
1/31/05 6:49:21 PM
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Not saying its right - just saying it worked.
I'm not sure what we do about that.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #192,100
1/28/05 11:36:02 AM
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The broad brush is deliberate.
I want those you call the true "followers of Christ" to feel damned uncomfortable being lumped in with those who are hijacking Christianity for their own political purposes.
Right now, all I'm seeing out there in the "real world" is nodding agreement with the "values thing" espoused by a political movement who's only real values are prefixed by a "$".
Complacency is colaboration.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #192,112
1/28/05 2:34:29 PM
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Well you suceeded here.
Pissed ME off - though you could hardly call me complacent about the hijacking of the name 'Christianity' for the political and economic gain. And it's funny, but the Christians friends I know are both disgusted about it and vocal, too.
Now - there are large numbers of (clinical?) morons here in the Great Red Spot (err, state) of Georgia, so I assume there are large numbers of moronic Christians, as well. If those are the ones you are talking to, go find them and talk. I don't think you will find many here.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #192,143
1/28/05 5:50:08 PM
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What you guys gotta do
is organise a march. With a lot of people. On Washington. With a good moniker, indicating that the march is in fact christian in origin. With a lot of invitations sent to various churches.
Why? So you can force coverage of your views... because right now, they aren't being covered by your media. An outsider looking in can only conclude that the soul of US Christianity is basically authoritarian in nature (if not in fact totalitarian) because the only people getting published are the ones you and your friends don't like.
... and as a side note, the power to publish is one of those mechanisms that legislates heredity in class.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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