Post #190,568
1/18/05 8:54:04 AM
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No real difference that you can see?
You must be blind, then. They killed in God's name. Th echristian volunteers, while the are probably a PITA to be around, went to the other end of the Earth to try and help people.
--
- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.
[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]
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Post #190,578
1/18/05 12:02:56 PM
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They didn't go to help anyone
other than themselves.
Anyhow, seems like the US is killing in the name of (insert ideology) with much greater efficiency.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #190,584
1/18/05 12:38:28 PM
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"the US" may be killing people,
but those missionaries (even if they are missionaries and not aid workers, which has not been proven) are not.
As to efficiency, the US is not being efficient at killing at all. Osama certainly worked at peak efficiency when he slammed the airliners inot buildings. Want to bet that US can kill far more "efficiently" that we do now?
--
- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.
[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]
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Post #190,586
1/18/05 12:42:34 PM
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It would make it easier
if we didn't need to aim.
That minor distinction gives the opposition a slight advantage.
Nevermind the fact that there are likely thousands doing fabulous work over there for nothing other than the desire to help who have now been tarnished cause one guy has his panties in a bunch about the comment of one jerk.
Ain't the internet wunderful.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #190,592
1/18/05 1:58:02 PM
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More than one
[link|http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/993308.cms|http://timesofindia....leshow/993308.cms]
Relief work in the Aceh province of Sumatra is assuming religious undertones with some aid groups seeking to exploit the tragedy. A number of religious groups have moved in to the region, looking to help tsunami victims \ufffd and convert them to their faith \ufffd which is creating trouble in the area.
and [link|http://news.newkerala.com/india-news/?action=fullnews&id=60729|http://news.newkeral...fullnews&id=60729]
Rage and fury has gripped this tsunami-hit tiny Hindu village in India's southern Tamil Nadu after a group of Christian missionaries allegedly refused them aid for not agreeing to follow their religion.
And then there was the plan to "create a foothold" of christianity by building an orphanage to raise a group of tsunami orphans in a "christian home". This has since been abandoned.
[link|http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=975239&tw=wn_wire_story|http://wireservice.w...&tw=wn_wire_story]
One should ask themselves how they would feel if a group of muslims set out to adopt Florida hurricane orphans to "create a foothold" of their faith in Florida. I expect that the public outcry would be no less deafening.
One is reminded of the saying quoted in Michener's "Hawaii".
"The missionaries came here to do good and for the most part they did right well."
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #190,602
1/18/05 2:45:43 PM
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Oh, I doubt that
I'm sure that Osama wasn't even close to peak killing efficiencies reached by the US at various times when he took out the WTC. Hell, go read about some of the bigger Civil War battles; they did a MUCH better job of killing people in large numbers in a short time than Osama's ever even come close to.
States are much more efficient at killing people than NGOs will ever be.
That said, you're right about the distinction between Osama and those folks. OTOH, there is some value about getting to know the people you want to proselytize before you start proselytizing to them. Also, the comment about being there until "George Bush stops paying for the paint" is quite telling... the person who said that clearly doesn't know who's paying and who isn't (for example, currently Canada has actually paid more money in absolute terms than the US has, let alone on a per capita basis). The idea that US citizens are not even aware of events outside of the US context is, sadly, part of the global stereotype of Americans abroad.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #190,605
1/18/05 3:08:48 PM
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Precisely my point
US _could_ be more efficient. But aren't.
And yes, the guy that shows up in the story is an a**hole. But he is not a terrorist.
--
- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.
[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]
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Post #190,609
1/18/05 3:41:25 PM
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Dunno.. about your definitions.
There's something terror-ible about Pointedly withholding supplies You Have Right There, packing them up and driving away:
Because they won't instantly Love Jesus. Enough.
(And of what Use in the Onward Christian Soldier Crusade - is a 'convert' That fickle, anyway?)
Why, withholding food to prisoners is considered torture, and that IS terrorism on the one-one level. So what *shall* we call these deranded evangels?
(Shills.. would be just too mealy-mouthed, doncha think?)
How about sanctimonious cacksuckers?
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Post #190,611
1/18/05 3:56:40 PM
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My bullshit detector is going off
As low an opinion as I hold of some of those in the thralls of religiopiates, I get the feeling this story is more likely to turn up on Snopes than not.
-----------------------------------------
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."
-- H. L. Mencken
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Post #190,613
1/18/05 4:02:31 PM
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Gee. Once again.
Demonizing a large group over the actions of a few.
Well - I guess that you also believe that Muslim=terrorist.
Right?
You are a US citizen - being part of that group, why, you must be a Christian!
Right?
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #190,619
1/18/05 4:19:00 PM
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Straw's falling out of that icon, all over the bog it's on
*This Group* - you know, the ones with the trucks, the food and the idiocy? - WTF does This Group have to do with say, The Salvation Army and all the other religio-based groups who Aren't Patent Assholes\ufffd?
It's all in Your Mind, you see..
Then there's the question raised by Silverlock's BS detector - since this is rather a textbook case of malfeasance so stark as to need no parsing of 'motives' and excuses and "We wuz misunderstood: why.. Of Course we'll feed you! even if you *don't* Genuflect Right Now". Is the report a lie or not?
I have no more idea than You Do - of what actually transpired / or didn't happen.
(Any more than I know whether Condoleeza is a cyborg, in actuality)
IF THEN - a simple concept, I wot. IF NOT THEN NOT.. also follows.
{sheesh}
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Post #190,625
1/18/05 4:51:33 PM
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Talk about BS
So you agree with Todd that 'Christians' approximate terrorists, killers? That 'they' are there giving out food and building shelter for their 'own benefit'? Oh - they must be bereft of the motivations that other aid workers have - why? Because they are Christians?
It's terrible that that happened, that some nuns may have acted terribly. Yes. Some people (especially people with opinions like your's or Todd's, I expect) may find Christians annoying. That makes it OK to denigrate and deride the work that they ARE doing, of course.
Bah.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #190,642
1/18/05 5:53:07 PM
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Are you willfully missing the point(s)
or just a tad dense?
We all know: yes Virginia - there ARE assholes in the world.
And there are religions and the religious and the non- anti- or simply separate-from the entire existential Question.
Is a 'Christian asshole' somehow more nefarious? more reprehensible than say, your local panhandler umm.. the one with the Porsche parked around the corner:
(merely for being, occasionally - more unctuous and smugly self-satisfied? for being Certain of that which can never Be-'Certain' within flighty impressionable homosap jelloware? For 'glorying' in the pun-ishment of all those 'Others' who Are Wrong Wrong / Cause I Be Righteous?)
Seems to be a personal matter there, in assignment of relative annoyance factors. Matter of taste, training, ed-ja-Kay-shun and other overlays, I suppose. Maybe even DNA - or what kinda Gramma you had??
But what one Cannot say -at the least- about the non-religio [asshole or demi-asshole] is:
The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.
-- Georgia Harkness in "Conflicts in Religious Thought"
and especially,
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
-- Blaise Pascal
And who am I to argue with such as these - I guess that being a 'Christian asshole' does *indeed* magnify, extend ---> even transmogrify the simple concept, asshole
Perhaps conjuring even the veritable antipode of (to coin a phrase)
How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.
I love thee to the depth and breadth and height
My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight
For the ends of Being and ideal Grace.
...
HTH
I Who Be
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Post #190,643
1/18/05 6:04:10 PM
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Pascal is certainly out -of-date
20th century poved that evil is just as cheerfully done for the sake of "radiant future" and for the sake of "the Nation".
And it does not take "divine command" to turn "human judgement" into an instrument of mass murder.
Any other basis for singling out the religion?
Yes, religious assholes are assholes. The problem is, there are other holey sources. And, of course, another proble is that some people just forget to say "asshole" and simply say "religious".
--
- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.
[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]
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Post #190,678
1/18/05 7:50:47 PM
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Heard on the radio tonight
An American is trying to buy Manchester United. The local fans are ... shall we say, displeased with the thought. Asked what the team means to them, two of the five interviewed said following the Red Devils was a religion. Then the reporter mentioned the couple of times fans have burned an American flag after a game to protest the potential sale.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #190,680
1/18/05 7:58:57 PM
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Me?
Mmmhmm. I guess so. I don't evaluate/badmouth/denigrate people by religion. I must be dense. "merely for being, occasionally - more unctuous and smugly self-satisfied? for being Certain of that which can never Be-'Certain' within flighty impressionable homosap jelloware?" And you don't place yourself squarely in the middle of this set? And I'm dense? "But what one Cannot say -at the least- about the non-religio" HORSECRAP. NOW HEAR THIS. NOW HEAR THIS. EVERY STATEMENT YOU QUOTE IS APPLICABLE TO THE WORD "IDEOLOGY".That is all. [link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #190,688
1/18/05 9:31:19 PM
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We jelloware users are accustomed to strife.
My ideology, you say?
OK:
Everything we 'Know!!-fershure' is false.. except maybe the trivial stuff like F=MA.
You are not talking to just anyone's fool; I am a Fully-licensed jelloware lessee! on the EZ-payment Plan. This is decidedly primitive lo-bid wetware; read the Consumer Reports review.
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Post #190,708
1/18/05 10:30:20 PM
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Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #190,733
1/19/05 2:50:31 AM
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Ooh - you speak French!
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #190,782
1/19/05 11:59:00 AM
1/19/05 11:59:36 AM
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Oops, forgot the redirect
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
Edited by drewk
Jan. 19, 2005, 11:59:36 AM EST
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Post #190,784
1/19/05 11:59:26 AM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #190783 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=190783|ICLRPD]
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #190,734
1/19/05 3:01:46 AM
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Got nothing to do with xians
and everything to do with missionaries and evangelical-types.
Generally I support burning all at the stake in the name of fighting the uniculture.
So, practice whatever superstition you like. Leave others to practice theirs (or not practice at all). Curiosity and open sharing of beliefs on request is generally welcome. Self righteousness and preaching is not.
Help if you want to - or don't. And stop telling me to disbelieve my own eyes.
There is nothing in the world more ironic than a bunch of people who preach creationism and economic darwinism at the same time. These people we could all do without.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #190,743
1/19/05 8:41:26 AM
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I've got nothing against God, ...
it's His fan club that worries me.
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
(Just trying to be accepted in the New America)
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Post #190,615
1/18/05 4:06:53 PM
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The particular ones who did that
certainly deserve the name.
Still, it's better that "mass murderer" or "suicide bomber". Unless you ask Todd, who doen't see any difference.
--
- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.
[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]
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Post #190,617
1/18/05 4:13:20 PM
1/18/05 4:15:36 PM
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Question of degrees
isn't it?
murdering theocracy exploiting the many for the benefit of the few exerting control through application of fear
vs
murdering theocracy exploiting the many for the benefit of the few exerting control through application of fear
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #190,624
1/18/05 4:50:02 PM
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Whatever. Can't argue with that. None so blind as who...
--
- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.
[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]
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Post #190,693
1/18/05 9:46:58 PM
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rice christians I believe the term used
and having a relative who did missionary work because she could have native maids and servants just like the old raj, opposed to me own mam who was asking me how to go about smuggling cb radio's into cuba along with her other donations. Told her not to bother calling me for a ride home if she even thought about it.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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