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New Real democratic elections in Ukrania. What next?
It's a late Christmas present for the people of Ukrania, and a coal in
the stocking of democracy haters everywere.

Want to talk about stolen elections? [link|http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/11/28/wukra28.xml|This is what an attempt to steal an election looks like].

Excerpt:

It was 5.30pm on election day in Ukraine when the thugs in masks
arrived armed with rubber truncheons.

Vitaly Kizima, an election monitor at Zhovtneve in Ukraine's Sumy region,
watched in horror as 30 men in tracksuits stormed into the village
polling station.

"They started to beat voters and election officials, trying to push
through towards the ballot boxes," he told The Telegraph.

"People's faces were cut from blows to the head. There was blood all
over."

The thugs - believed to be loyal to the pro-Russian presidential
candidate Viktor Yanukovich from his stronghold, Donetsk - were repulsed
only when locals pushed them back and a policeman fired warning shots.

I say:

So it began. All indications are that Putin was behind it all. It
seems he's decided Russia needs its empire back in order to function.
Easier than re-inventing a dysfunctional society. He and his supporters
are as much dead-enders as those terrorists in the Sunni Triangle.
Nobody's likely to get his empire back on Dubya's watch.

Somebody poisoned Yushchenko, the opposition candidate, with dioxin,
disfiguring him. It didn't even slow him down.

Then the Ukranian courts declared the election invalid (which it all too
obviously was) and now we've got a new election.

[link|http://sg.news.yahoo.com/041227/1/3phyj.html|And Yushchenko has won.]

I don't know a lot about this guy, but he can't be worse than a puppet
of the Russian nomenklatura. Rumors are that billionaire investment
swindler and megalomaniac George Soros supported Yushchenko, but I won't
hold a mere rumored association against him.

Despite my very slight misgivings, I'm going to chalk this one up as a
victory for democracy, and another in a string of defeats for the anti-
democratic forces. This winning streak includes the elections in
Afghanistan, which were a victory simply by happening at all, the
elections in Australia, where pro-democratic forces prevailed, the
elections last November in the United States, where again pro-democratic
forces prevailed, and now Ukrania. The elitist Left have been beside
themselves since the American people refused to obey them. All they can
think to do is complain about how stupid we are. Well, we think they're
dumber than dirt too, but we don't whine about it. If only all our
enemies could be so inept.

Next up: Iraq. The terrorists are doing everything they can to prevent
democracy there, killing election workers and anyone else they can kill,
any way they can. This sort of thing won't win them any friends, but it
will separate the men from the weasels.

A much bigger concern is the administration's insistence on thinking of
Iraq as a legitimate nation state that must be kept together as a
political unit for some obscure reason. Dubya keeps speaking of "the
Iraqi People" as if there is such a thing. There isn't. There are at
least three distinct peoples in this arbitrary collection of real estate
we have named Iraq: the Kurds, the Shia Arabs, and those complete and
utter a**holes in the Sunni Triangle. These groups all hate each other,
and there's nothing to gain by trying to force them to get along.

But maybe it will work anyway. Time will tell. It certainly can't be
worse than when the Tikritis ruled.

On the whole, the trend is much more favorable to freedom than when that
gladhandler Clinton was cluttering up the Oval Office. We've already
undone a big chunk of the damage that was done while he was supposed to
be on watch.

[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/politics.world.html#20041227|Angelfire link] (turn off Javascript to avoid popups)

Freenet: /SSK%40jbf~W~x49RjZfyJwplqwurpNmg0PAgM/marlowe//politics.world.html#20041227


[link|http://fnmarlowe-politics-world.blogspot.com/2004/12/real-democratic-elections-in-ukrania.html|Comment at blogger.com]

----------------------------------------------------------------
Well, pardon us for winning the election.
Memo to Democrats and to the Left: hatred is not a substitute for vision.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New ...You learn how to spell "Ukraine"?
Just a WAG.
-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New Bah, why bother?
It's only them cabbage-eatin' slavs, after all. They don't even talk proper.


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New And no US troops involved in bringing democracy.
Alex

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
New Now, now....don't be dishonest
You know old pucker-face wouldn't have won without the glorious help of ol' Dubya and his threat of sending in da troops.
New Sure he would have!
Why, it happened all the time when Jimmy Carter was in charge!

Wait a minute. No it didn't. Happened under Reagan and Papa Bush, though. Most of eastern Europe got liberated from the forces of the worker's paradise.

Clinton had a stab at cleaning up the Balkans, with decidely mixed results.

Gunboat diplomacy is enormously effective in a large section of the world. Doesn't work against Islamist fascists, though. But the gunboats themselves have some effect. Stubborn stains may require repeated treatments.

There's a remote possibility we could see a Prague 1968 scenario in Ukrania. Then it will get very interesting.

Oh, and by the way, the Ukraine - a.k.a the Ukrainain SSR - was a Soviet province that no longer exists as such. It's Ukrania now. Like it or not.

(Or Ukrainia, for a valid alternate spelling. But why bother with spelling flames when there's such wonderful and interesting things going on to talk about?)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Well, pardon us for winning the election.
Memo to Democrats and to the Left: hatred is not a substitute for vision.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New It's "Ukraine".
[link|http://www.ukrconsul.org/|http://www.ukrconsul.org/]
[link|http://kiev.usembassy.gov/main_eng.html|http://kiev.usembassy.gov/main_eng.html]
[link|http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/up.html|http://www.cia.gov/c...book/geos/up.html]


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Chuckle...
Wait a minute. No it didn't. Happened under Reagan and Papa Bush, though. Most of eastern Europe got liberated from the forces of the worker's paradise.


I'm surprised you mentioned Reagan. I wasn't going to go there; given Reagan history of trading with terrorists.

Gunboat diplomacy is enormously effective in a large section of the world. Doesn't work against Islamist fascists, though. But the gunboats themselves have some effect. Stubborn stains may require repeated treatments.


Actually, I agree with you. Give Carter some credit as he was one of the first modern presidents that had to deal with Islamist extremists. He tried negotiations, which worked with Egypt and Israel...but failed with the terrorists. He tried force...but the special forces group failed as well.

Personally, I disagree with Reagan's solution even more though.
New is this from the source who provided the poisoning theory?
[link|http://www.antiwar.com/orig/boyle.php?articleid=4217|http://www.antiwar.c...hp?articleid=4217]
Except Yushchenko could not have been admitted to the Rudolfinerhaus Clinic in Vienna for dioxin poisoning. And the medical records obtained from that clinic do not indicate that diagnosis. In fact, Viktor Yushchenko's problem is likely much more severe than record blood levels of dioxin. His problems are in all probability so severe and of such import for him and his party that he and the Rudolfinerhaus medical claque chanced a daring and bold gambit in order to hide the truth and simultaneously implicate his opponent. The truth is, Viktor Yushchenko may well be the victim of two poisonings, the more severe of which his physicians have yet to reveal.
snip
The Rudolfinerhaus clinic advertises itself as a discrete and posh clinic. I have questioned, right from the beginning, the rationale for Yushchenko entering this medical facility if he truly had a mysterious ailment or needed high-end care. One of my readers, a computer scientist and an "expat Austrian," by his own description, commented:

"Had I an actual health problem, I would prefer, say, the U. of Vienna's teaching hospital (for most things), or the Lorenz-Boehler (trauma, accidents), and so on.

"A few years ago, the Rudolfinerhaus had the reputation of a Betty Ford clinic for the affluent, with an add-on wing for the yearly checkups of rich oil sheiks. Unless that rep has experienced a sea change since then, I must ask: Why would someone who claims to have been poisoned check into the place when the AKH is a stone's throw away?"
I wonder a lot about the quality of an election with disinformation so balatant coming from both sides.
regards,
daemon

that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
New by the way, merry christmas etc.
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
     Real democratic elections in Ukrania. What next? - (marlowe) - (9)
         ...You learn how to spell "Ukraine"? - (Yendor) - (1)
             Bah, why bother? - (pwhysall)
         And no US troops involved in bringing democracy. -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (4)
             Now, now....don't be dishonest - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
                 Sure he would have! - (marlowe) - (2)
                     It's "Ukraine". - (pwhysall)
                     Chuckle... - (Simon_Jester)
         is this from the source who provided the poisoning theory? - (daemon)
         by the way, merry christmas etc. -NT - (daemon)

The parity bit is a bit that detects an error in itself 1/9th of the time.
70 ms