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New Re: Idealistic fantasy
>Now for the fantasy. Do you really think the Taliban would turn bin Laden over to any court where there was the slightest possibility of a guilty verdict? Representatives of the Taliban indicated bin Laden probably has more influence over the Taliban than Omar has. It was simply a propeganda ploy, and obviously quite effective for those who want to believe.

We will never know. But the fact that the US decided to forego and ignore a legitimate request in every sense of the word by a ruling regime, in an internationally recognized sovereign country, to provide proofs before they (the Taliban) decides what they will do, spoke volume.

Andrew, you are assuming "we" who are critizng the actions taken by the US as total idiots who have no perspective of our own. That premise is wrong. Whether you believe or not, I'll leave it to you.

>And who suffered the worst? The Taliban got smashed and lost nearly all of Afghanistan within a few weeks. They are on the virge of losing Kandahar, their stronghold and the only city they still hold. Al Queda lost it's primary war strategist, Mohammed Atef (though it may be hurt almost as much by internationl arrests and freezing of funds).

Perhaps you have genuinely forgotten that there are approx 7.5 millions of Afghanistani who are at the verge of starvation, forced out of their home by bomb drops that also happened to "accidentally" hit Al-Jazeera broadcast station etc.

And how does that prevent/deter fanatical Egypt/Saudi nationals from more terrorist attacks? And now, add to them more that are pushed to the extremes from other muslim countries in view of the "injustice" done to a weak and defenseless muslim country. So will the US next target an entire religion because some of them are linked by birth/marriage etc to the terrorists?

>Meanwhile, civilians are celebrating in Kabul and the other cities. Music is once again heard in the streets. Women have cast off the burka and gone back to their work. Now they can get medical attention and education again too. Men have had their beards trimmed or shaven as they prefer, without fear of being beaten or killed for that.

Possible propoganda here? I mean, haven't millions already fled their home and at the verge of starvations? Aren't the NA that "liberated" Kabul and the other cities also beginning to loot and murder? Who has the greater NEED to propogandize? The UN/Red Cross/AI or the NA? Then again, your guess is as good as mine since I have nothing to prove my position since all I have are 2nd/3rd hand accounts/reporting.

>Oh, yes, I almost forgot: "World Opinion" will blame us for trying to stop them from killing each other.

World opinion are usually divided, and you're probably correct that SOME portion will blame the US regardless of what it does. But using that as an excuse to ignore suggestions/solutions/resolutions provided is extremely foolish.

I can only point you to the fact that the US once cheered the Taliban from ridding Afghanistan of the NA, and is now propping NA back in power. Of course, how that will turn out is anybody's guess. But once again, US has meddled/taken side/assisted with another sovereign country's INTERNAL dispute. I wonder how you feel if UK or Iraq or hack, Cuba meddled/taken side/assisted with US internal dispute.

I believe you are intelligent enough to really see the overall picture that "we" are "advocating".
New False:
in an internationally recognized sovereign country, to
provide proofs before they (the Taliban) decides what they will do,
spoke volume.
IIRC, only Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (maybe one more?) recognized the Taleban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.

And while I too am cognizant of the evil effects of most mob-actions, and the malleability of the Murican Peepul (and all others) to demagoguery - I find your list here, to be really reaching, as in your ref to "forgetting about the starving".

That impending fact has been regularly on the agenda of even our Valley-speak inane talking News-heads since square 1.

There are internal matters - just say 'Ashcroft' - of ominous local trend, and there are bound to be some stupidities in the actions to date. But not on the scale of arrant knavery you portray: that is more akin to agitprop of earlier days and re Vietnam -- where we really Were being stupid and arrogant beyond belief.

And we have not yet exorcised That Demon, despite pronouncing it dead on the usual Holidays.. Many are in denial still. We have factions who'd like to duplicate that atrocity in Afg. Thus far they are not calling the shots.

If they do, we'll talk again.


Ashton
New Re: False:
>And while I too am cognizant of the evil effects of most mob-actions, and the malleability of the Murican Peepul (and all others) to demagoguery - I find your list here, to be really reaching, as in your ref to "forgetting about the starving".

>That impending fact has been regularly on the agenda of even our Valley-speak inane talking News-heads since square 1.

Heh, those are the "we" that I was referring to... where "we" consist of folks who have tried and continue to try to bring attention to the numerous "flaws" in the current "War against Terrorism", albeit not totally in agreement with each other.
New We smashed Al-Jazeera station?
Could you point me to a link?
New Re: We smashed Al-Jazeera station?
[link|http://www.zmag.org/flandersarabcnn.htm|[link|http://www.zmag.org/flandersarabcnn.htm|http://www.zmag.org...sarabcnn.htm]]

[link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1653000/1653887.stm|[link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1653000/1653887.stm|http://news.bbc.co..../1653887.stm]]

[link|http://www.indymedia.org.il/imc/israel/webcast/display.php3?article_id=9938|[link|http://www.indymedia.org.il/imc/israel/webcast/display.php3?article_id=9938|http://www.indymedi...icle_id=9938]]

New Not a peep from CNN. I am disgusted!
New al-Jazeera
Need a bit more information to guesstimate the intent of that attack. Agree with the comments in links re US antipathy towards the network:

Whether al-J. is perfectly unbiased? (Hah - like all Our Networks??) or slanted a bit against: fact is they have indeed transmitted US rebuttals - more than lip-service IMhO to their aiming for some 'diversity of opinion', as is their claim.

To the extent US folk decry their existence: that's dumbth, if it stems from the usual ignorance - hypocrisy if it is because they present opposing opinions to ours [at all]. We do that periodically - and it is always execrable when we do. But we also do that at home; you have to be hypocrites to call a Corporate-purchased government, 'freely elected'.

As for this attack: too soon to tell if it was intentional IMO.


A.
     Comments? - (TTC) - (32)
         The jubilation of the liberated in afganistan - (boxley) - (26)
             Re: The jubilation of the liberated in afganistan - (TTC) - (23)
                 does that also include the people in Nangking - (boxley)
                 Oh, we've certainly learned something . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (21)
                     Well said and right on, Andrew! -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (20)
                         Re: Well said and right on, Andrew! - (TTC) - (19)
                             No, it is a matter of intent. - (Andrew Grygus) - (18)
                                 Re: No, it is a matter of intent. - (TTC) - (17)
                                     Idealistic fantasy - (Andrew Grygus) - (8)
                                         Re: Idealistic fantasy - (TTC) - (6)
                                             False: - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                 Re: False: - (TTC)
                                             We smashed Al-Jazeera station? - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                 Re: We smashed Al-Jazeera station? - (TTC) - (1)
                                                     Not a peep from CNN. I am disgusted! -NT - (Arkadiy)
                                             al-Jazeera - (Ashton)
                                         Typical; once again you fsck up otherwise near-perfect post: - (CRConrad)
                                     Legitimate government of Afghanistan? - (admin) - (7)
                                         Ok, "legitimate" might be pushing it... - (TTC) - (3)
                                             UN Representation held by Pres. Rabbani. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                 Also, Rabbani has returned to Kabul. - (a6l6e6x)
                                                 Thanks for the info. -NT - (TTC)
                                         Actually, he didn't say "government". - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                             Uh, wrong? - (admin) - (1)
                                                 Ah, OK. Yeah, I missed 1 out of 3 places he mentioned it. - (CRConrad)
             One thing that I see is that... - (ChrisR) - (1)
                 Yes. - (Andrew Grygus)
         Just cause. Then what? - (Arkadiy)
         He's nuts. - (wharris2)
         Too much sanity to pass muster - (Ashton) - (2)
             That's the second step - (wharris2) - (1)
                 Re: That's the second step - (TTC)

Deep down facial creases!
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