Post #185,125
11/26/04 4:52:46 PM
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running out of oil? hardly
[link|http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41613|http://www.worldnetd...?ARTICLE_ID=41613] The truth is, the history of oil prognostication is littered with scaremongers proclaiming false declarations of approaching oil famine. In fact, doom merchants have used oil as a vehicle for "end of the world" scenarios since before World War I. Consider:
* In 1914, the U.S. Bureau of Mines declared that the United States would run out of oil in 10 years.
* In 1939, the Department of the Interior predicted that oil reserves would last only 13 more years.
* In 1950, when the world's estimated reserves were thought to be 600 billion barrels, the Department of Interior again projected the end of the age of oil by 1963.
* Move forward to the 1973 Arab oil embargo, which prompted the highly respected journal Foreign Affairs to publish an article on "The Oil Crisis: This Time the Wolf is Here."
* In 1981, a respected textbook on economic geology predicted that the United States was entering a 125-year-long energy gap, expected to be at its worst in the year 2000 with dire consequences to our standard of living.
* In 1995, a prominent geologist predicted that petroleum production would peak in 1996 and that after 1999 many of the developed world's societies would look like Third World countries.
* In 1998, a Scientific American article titled "End of the Age of Oil" predicted that world oil production would peak in 2002 and that we would soon face the "end of the abundant and cheap oil on which all nations depend."
All of these predictions were wrong. In fact, from 1950 to the present, the world's recognized oil reserves have increased virtually every year. regards, daemon that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #185,126
11/26/04 5:02:12 PM
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Is this a build-up to telling us . . .
. . that you bought a Hummer?
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #185,127
11/26/04 5:17:37 PM
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wouldnt own one down here
would be usefull in Alaska or the western states but useless in the city.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #185,128
11/26/04 6:28:23 PM
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Catch the cartoon, 'Foxtrot'? Several days of the 'Humbler'
- a Bradley-sized behemoth and a bunch of sight gags.
When your StatusSymbol becomes butt of enough comics pages.. well, time for the Kindler Gentler Humbler Hybrid. What's an extra $10K for the conspicuous consumer?
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Post #185,131
11/26/04 6:59:41 PM
11/26/04 7:03:14 PM
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Caught the Humbler . . .
. . but it was quite a bit bigger than a Bradley.
Particularly liked that the dealership had a divorce specialist on the staff in case you wife wouldn't let you buy one.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #185,143
11/26/04 11:50:23 PM
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On the other hand, no one is making more of it! :)
Alex
In politics, what begins in fear usually ends in folly. -- Samuel Taylor Coleridge, poet (1772-1834)
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Post #185,163
11/27/04 7:36:00 AM
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But is it cheap?
The major media focus with myopic intensity on conventional crude reserves, ignoring stunning reserves of oil located in tar sands and oil shale. At best, this is difficult to comprehend. Conventional crude oil is much cheaper than tar and shale, otherwise oil companies would already be extracting them to undermine OPEC. Running out of liquid crude means more expensive oil, more expensive transportation of a globalised economy and, hence, more expensive everything. Kiss goodbye to our wealthy lifestyles as we know it. What the author fails to comprehend is that running out of oil is not the problem, it's running out of cheap energy. The Western world could use wind and wave power, have an infinite supply of energy and say goodbye to the Saudis. Except that it's far too expensive. Matthew Greet
But we must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assassin. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? They lie. They lie and we must be merciful to those who lie.
- Colonol Kurtz, Apocalypse Now.
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Post #185,170
11/27/04 11:13:39 AM
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read the article
claims that brakeven for oil shales is 28-30 dollars a barrel, wouldnt you be glad to pay that? then again, you live in a place where your cost of gas is twice ours because your government had decided that people dont need to drive cars unless they are heavily willing to pay for it. Thats fine on a wee Island with decent mass transit. Its Impractical for the US Russia and Canada.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #185,182
11/27/04 2:01:07 PM
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Umm.. yeah
The Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers sees the oil sand reservoir at a stunning 2,000 billion barrels of crude, of which 315 billion barrels is currently recoverable. This is oil economically viable at prices between $18 and $20 per barrel. Worldwide, recoverable reserves of oil found in oil sands are currently reported in excess of 1,000 billion barrels. With Brent crude at $44 per barrel, heavy oil mixed with sand can be extracted at half the cost. I believe it too. Technology might make it economically viable, as it extended current, conventional reserves. But it is not wise to depend on future technology. After all, nuclear power remains expensive and we're still waiting for fusion power. Matthew Greet
But we must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assassin. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? They lie. They lie and we must be merciful to those who lie.
- Colonol Kurtz, Apocalypse Now.
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Post #185,184
11/27/04 2:14:40 PM
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technology is available now
[link|http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/ccc/search/navigate.do?language=eng&portal=1&estblmntNo=123456153017&profile=completeProfile|http://strategis.ic....e=completeProfile] Product Name: \tThermal Process Technology
(Exporting)
Thermal retorting process technology and process equipment - the
Alberta Taciuk Process (ATP). It is used to separate, extract or
produce hydrocarbons from host materials, such as oil sands, oil
shales and contaminated soils and sludges. regards, daemon that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #185,185
11/27/04 2:27:24 PM
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Shhh.
Green River is >the< strategic reserve.
Of course...you have to be able to get rid of the garbage...and that will be quite a chore. That adds about equal the cost. At current oil prices...I expect that investment in this technology may begin soon.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #185,195
11/27/04 5:04:34 PM
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Price?
I'm getting no joy from the webserver. Technology exists to extract heavy oil from sand oil but is it cheap and can it handle huge quantities? With the emphasis on cheap and huge quantities.
Matthew Greet
But we must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assassin. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? They lie. They lie and we must be merciful to those who lie.
- Colonol Kurtz, Apocalypse Now.
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Post #185,201
11/27/04 5:54:03 PM
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the technology is pretty dumb
load shale into bin and apply hot water, collect liquid and drain oil off the top,
just a matter of scaling, environmental concerns and startup costs.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #185,233
11/28/04 7:05:38 AM
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So why isn't it being done now?
I'd guess the water requirements are still the limiting factor. Can't use potable water. Can't realistically use even sewer water as it can be recycled back to potable and is too necessary for irrigation/crops. That leaves salt water. How you going to get one to the other? More pipelines probably. Now what are you going to do with the waste? recycle or bury?
Feasible at 30 dollars a barrel? Not a chance. Maybe at 300.
-----------------------------------------
How do you convince a Washington Journalist that you're not slapping him in the face?
Tell him you're not.
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Post #185,245
11/28/04 11:43:38 AM
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it IS being done now, read the link
THE ATP FOR OIL PRODUCTION FROM OIL SHALES
The ATP is applied commercially as a new technology to produce
oil from oil shale in Queensland, Australia. A 4,500 barrels per
day production capacity plant was commissioned in 1999 that
employs a 250 tph feed capacity ATP Processor to extract
hydrocarbons from the mined shale. Secondary processes condense
the vapors and condition the oil to market standards.
The Processor is a rotary kiln-type vessel in which the
continuous flow feed shale is heated and retorted at
approximately 550 deg.C. The size of the cylindrical unit is 8m
diameter by 60m long. the word commisioned implies produxction regards, daemon that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #185,253
11/28/04 12:44:49 PM
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Yes, it is happening now
A lot of facilities are being built in Alberta right now. This is not without controversy up here; the process uses a LOT of natural gas, and it's driving the prices for natural gas up. A lot of homes in Canada use natural gas for heating, and it's hitting a lot of people in the wallet. The other issue is the water, and just what will be done with it afterwards.
The trade press and business pages up here run stories on the development of the tar sands a lot these days. The added activity is also lifting up some of the provinces; Alberta became debt-free earlier this year, and Saskatchewan is now officially a "have" province (within the context of federal transfer payments between provinces).
Saskatchewan (birthplace of Canadian socialism and socialist medicare) could become a good place to settle, when looking at the long term; land's cheap, there aren't many people there, and the only major drawback is that the winters are completely brutal.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #185,258
11/28/04 12:59:41 PM
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the winters are fine in Saskatchewan
spent a winter in the wonderful town of watreaus. Nice dry cold, not too much snow, some nice country if you like flat prairie. If you dont go into the slave lake region. Before I die I would like to traverse slave lake into the Makenzie river and float to the mouth.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #185,320
11/28/04 8:22:38 PM
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Try running that one past Todd
after all, he thinks Seattle's too cold;)
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #185,323
11/28/04 10:11:16 PM
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cause he lives on a boat
in seatle in a boat at 30 degrees farenheit it feels subzero. No insulation and radiated heat by either a diesel stove or propane stove.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #185,501
11/29/04 9:14:03 PM
8/21/07 6:08:34 AM
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It was freakin cold last night lemme tell ya
First time temp has dropped to the low 20's and I foolishly turned off the heat when I went to CO for T-day. Came back and turned on heat but it didn't warm up much last night. Maybe when I get home tonight.
Also, my current heat is shore power electric (liquid filled radiator type to which I add a little fan to blow the heat off it and into the room).
Gotta get me a diesel furnace soon.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #185,250
11/28/04 11:55:43 AM
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But is it cheap?
Still getting no joy from that webserver. The technology may be dumb but so's coal mining and it's $48 per ton. And this technology requires heating water, which very energy intensive. The question remains: is it cheap and does it do it in large quantities, with the emphasis on cheap and large quantities?
Matthew Greet
But we must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assassin. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? They lie. They lie and we must be merciful to those who lie.
- Colonol Kurtz, Apocalypse Now.
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Post #185,251
11/28/04 12:15:16 PM
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read my reply to Silverlock
4500 barrels a day being done now. If it didnt meet local oil prices it would be shut down I would think.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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Post #185,254
11/28/04 12:46:41 PM
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Watch for that number to expand
there's a lot of development happening, but there's lead time before they can get up and running. The facilities required are huge and there's still negotiating happening wrt environmental issues. Check that number again in another two years...
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #185,257
11/28/04 12:58:18 PM
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You have a point
Matthew Greet
But we must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assassin. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? They lie. They lie and we must be merciful to those who lie.
- Colonol Kurtz, Apocalypse Now.
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Post #185,189
11/27/04 3:35:51 PM
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Keep in mind . .
. . the current cost per barrel is not one bit reflective of costs to extract, but only what producers think they can extract from someone else's pockets.
If you had a major extraction project going, the conventional producers could drop the price until you were bankrupt, then raise it back. Then you just try getting investment capital for another go at it.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #185,484
11/29/04 8:13:13 PM
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Ain't it da truuthhh..
Vulture Capitalism - the guaranteed Zero-Sum game for all but the Owners.
The ultimate practical application of language-fucking:
Cooperation == Bad
Competition == Good
..all extrapolated to extremes, ever elided by the sloganeers.
Can't wrestle the 'Energy' problem til we wrestle the Language Murderer Problem.
Hah -- in the Land of Euphemism!?
Bon {oil} appetit
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Post #185,488
11/29/04 8:19:56 PM
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take a wild guess who owns leases on these deposits :-)
chairman of BP can see as far ahead as you
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
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