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IWETHEY Home / IWETHEY Board / Politics Forum / To what end?
Post #183,816
by bepatient
Picture of bepatient
11/9/04 5:59:47 PM
Reply
New To what end?
Therefore if heterosexuals get to say that they are married, then homosexuals should as well.


So they can then say they're divorced?

So they can pay more taxes?

Go after the specifics...what is it about "marriage" that is being sought? Go after those benefits/curses/whatever.

You see, I don't think these are the only objectives. I don't think its just equal rights being sought. It if is, then the movement does itself a disservice by attacking "the traditional" head on. I think there's a baser level acceptance being sought...and simply the act of seeking that "approval" creates a backlash.

Look, I hate to be the one to say that a group needs to be more PC to accomplish its objectives....(but I just did).
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Post #183,833
by ben_tilly
11/9/04 7:59:43 PM
Reply
New Benefits and obligations go hand in hand
If you can get married, then you can get divorced. Under the same terms as heterosexuals. The law should give equal treatment.

I don't disagree that gays really would like equal treatment from everyone. However doing that through the government means regulating expressions of personal opinion. I'm a lot more leery of that.

I also agree with you that any attempt by a disliked minority to assert themselves will result in a backlash. However I disagree that it is a useless endeavour, some will prove sympathetic who otherwise would never have thought about it. Whether that is worthwhile though, is harder to say.

But giving them equal treatment from the government is a no-brainer for me. While I understand that some object, and I intellectually understand why, at a gut level I can't even begin to sympathize with that position.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #183,842
by bepatient
Picture of bepatient
11/10/04 2:26:19 PM
Reply
New We both agree...
...that equal treatment under the law is a no brainer.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
     Banning Gay Marriage - (tuberculosis) - (40) - Nov. 8, 2004, 12:51:47 PM EST
         Want to clarify that? - (bepatient) - (39) - Nov. 8, 2004, 12:56:24 PM EST
             That's BS, and you know it - (ben_tilly) - (16) - Nov. 8, 2004, 01:11:54 PM EST
                 Man. - (bepatient) - (15) - Nov. 8, 2004, 01:26:09 PM EST
                     Bill accuses others of condescention, divisivness - (Silverlock) - (3) - Nov. 8, 2004, 02:06:09 PM EST
                         Nope. - (bepatient) - Nov. 8, 2004, 02:40:02 PM EST
                         Bill provides valuable counterpoint - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Nov. 8, 2004, 03:52:29 PM EST
                             Sometimes that's on purpose. - (bepatient) - Nov. 8, 2004, 03:56:19 PM EST
                     Where to begin? - (ben_tilly) - (10) - Nov. 8, 2004, 08:35:46 PM EST
                         Yes and no. - (bepatient) - (9) - Nov. 8, 2004, 09:13:08 PM EST
                             Can I play? - (drewk) - (2) - Nov. 8, 2004, 10:13:44 PM EST
                                 "Code words" - (bepatient) - (1) - Nov. 8, 2004, 11:51:57 PM EST
                                     Yup, Brandioch would nail you at the outset.. stead o' in - (Ashton) - Nov. 12, 2004, 12:29:24 AM EST
                             We part company at the third sentence - (ben_tilly) - (5) - Nov. 8, 2004, 10:47:50 PM EST
                                 And I think you overestimate... - (bepatient) - (4) - Nov. 8, 2004, 11:48:19 PM EST
                                     And here's my belief - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Nov. 9, 2004, 12:17:26 PM EST
                                         To what end? - (bepatient) - (2) - Nov. 9, 2004, 05:59:47 PM EST
                                             Benefits and obligations go hand in hand - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Nov. 9, 2004, 07:59:43 PM EST
                                                 We both agree... - (bepatient) - Nov. 10, 2004, 02:26:19 PM EST
             OK - (tuberculosis) - (21) - Nov. 8, 2004, 01:20:29 PM EST
                 Better. - (bepatient) - (7) - Nov. 8, 2004, 01:33:12 PM EST
                     That sentence is too long - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Nov. 8, 2004, 02:29:33 PM EST
                         Thats a universal -NT - (bepatient) - Nov. 8, 2004, 02:39:05 PM EST
                     Marriage should be meaningless then... - (xtensive) - (1) - Nov. 8, 2004, 05:42:11 PM EST
                         This, I agree with. -NT - (imric) - Nov. 8, 2004, 05:50:21 PM EST
                     Shrug...they'll lose in the end anyway. - (Simon_Jester) - (2) - Nov. 8, 2004, 05:51:25 PM EST
                         Re: Shrug...they'll lose in the end anyway. - (Yendor) - (1) - Nov. 9, 2004, 09:10:31 AM EST
                             Sorry for the delay.... - (Simon_Jester) - Nov. 22, 2004, 10:30:09 PM EST
                 I would vote against that - (daemon) - (12) - Nov. 8, 2004, 05:25:26 PM EST
                     Why should I care that *you* were married in a courthouse? -NT - (drewk) - (1) - Nov. 8, 2004, 05:28:39 PM EST
                         I wasnt, I dont beleive in state marriages for anyone, -NT - (daemon) - Nov. 8, 2004, 05:34:25 PM EST
                     We've been down this road before - (ben_tilly) - (9) - Nov. 8, 2004, 09:05:12 PM EST
                         married by Ashton Brown would suffice - (daemon) - (8) - Nov. 9, 2004, 12:04:19 AM EST
                             Speaking of Ashton... (new thread) - (Nightowl) - Nov. 9, 2004, 12:09:20 AM EST
                             more I think about it the more - (daemon) - (5) - Nov. 9, 2004, 12:12:53 AM EST
                                 In which case... - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Nov. 9, 2004, 12:12:45 PM EST
                                     already said that a couple of posts up :-) -NT - (daemon) - Nov. 9, 2004, 01:24:28 PM EST
                                     Re: In which case... - (CraigB) - (2) - Nov. 9, 2004, 06:56:02 PM EST
                                         It could always be made more complicated. - (Another Scott) - (1) - Nov. 9, 2004, 07:40:16 PM EST
                                             This fine Human suggestion is____entirely too___*sane* - (Ashton) - Nov. 12, 2004, 01:10:01 AM EST
                             As a Reverend in the Universal Life Church - (Ashton) - Nov. 12, 2004, 01:02:14 AM EST

I didn't tell you that it was good! I told you that it was interesting.
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