But John checks it out, and checks out the privacy policy, and as long as they don't want a whole lot of information, it's usually okay.

Besides, most websites we ever give information to, we buy something from, so we have to give them a real address and such, or we can't get our merchandise.

Any others, I either usually know the person running it, or can use an e-mail address that isn't a big deal if it gets compromised. If they just need an email, that's easier. It's sites that we aren't buying from that want a real address or phone number that we don't get on. Or if they say they'll give or sell our information to anyone, we don't get on them.

For example, there is a website I would like to be on, but they want more info than John is comfortable with, and they also claim they can do whatever they want with the info. So I can only read the public areas of that site. (Fortunately, there are some).

We don't do things like online banking or bill paying online, or anything that requires really serious information, so we're safer in that regard.

Brenda

And I trust him. It might surprise you to know, that I don't even use a credit card and charge anything or take any money out of the bank without asking him, unless it's an emergency.

I don't see the problem, Rand. It works fine for us.

Brenda

I realize that too. Many people can't understand it when a couple is truly a couple, and shares everything and discusses everything.

When we went to dinner Halloween night, which was 6 years from the night he proposed to me there, there was this guy there. He overheard us telling the waitress that John had proposed to me 6 years ago that day in that restaurant. He said Wow, that was impressive, that we came there every year on Halloween, that it was romantic, and we were obviously happy and in love, and he wished more people were like that in the world instead of always fighting and scrapping.

He was really amazed by us, and it hit me that yeah he's right, you don't hear about as many happy marriages as you do about the unhappy ones. I'm sure there are lots of happy ones out there, but I guess they aren't as publicized.

Brenda

[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=183082|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=183082]

It describes our marriage in what Greg called, a working marriage, and I believe that is what we have. And we also believe it's something you keep working on, not something you just have and let go. It's something you have to work on every day, to have a good marriage.

While there is a feeling of security in being "clinging monkeys", your relationship is healthier, more secure (even if it doesn't feel that way!), and more satisfying if you can transition into one where each person asserts him/herself more freely. Perhaps when you've reached my point (another 9 years) you'll understand. Odds are that this is something that you'll have to learn for yourself.

We already assert ourselves very freely. If I really care about something, he'll listen to my arguments and determine if it's doable. If he does, I do the same. In the case of the site we discussed, he agreed to check it out again, as it appears to be in a better state than when we saw it in a state of disarray, and he has agreed to let me on it now, because it no longer says it will do whatever it wants with our info. Yay!

A simple exercise can give you a sense of why. Try standing together, each on their own two feet, arms around each other. If you lean into the other person then every time the other person has to adjust you have to compensate. Neither of you is balanced. If you each have your weight on your own feet, you are more secure because you don't have to worry about the other person's shifts of weight.

We might try that sometime, but I trust him both when leaning on him and when we're both standing on our own feet as well. We don't control one another, we cooperate with one another. Or as many many people have said, we complement one another... or is that the compliment word? I've honestly never known which.

The real point is that when you're bound by your insecurities, it is very threatening for each of you if your partner attempts to address their insecurities. Personal growth threatens the foundation of the relationship! At some point you'll become aware that it feels kind of like, "I wake up every morning and hit myself so that my arm remains broken to give an excuse for someone to take care of me. Wouldn't it hurt less and work better to let my arm heal and then take care of myself?" To which the answer is a resounding and terrifying, Yes!

I used to be one of those people. I used to expect to be taken care of. I used to be needy and dependent, I even used to be clingy and possessive. All of those things are more or less gone or so changed that I don't have these feelings or fears anymore.

I'm not bound by my insecurities anymore, and haven't been insecure about John since his ex-girlfriend finally left our life and stopped tormenting me. She was good at finding chinks in my armor and causing those insecurities to fester. However, when she finally showed her true colors to him, he showed her the door out of their friendship forever. I even allowed another female friend of his(who actually stated at our wedding, that she should have been marrying him instead), into my Yahoo group, because I trust my husband.

We have our individual areas of personal growth, and he has sites he reads and deals with and I have my own, as well as we have the ones we share. He doesn't read everything here, for example, and I don't read everything on every site he's on.

I do not feel I need him to take care of me, except in extreme circumstances, like when my aunt died and my family was in chaos. I feel like he will take care of me, because he loves me, but I also feel I can take care of myself in many respects. Maybe not all, I'm still not sure about my ability to be employed again, but there are many I am sure about. I simply trust him to guide my life in the areas he knows best about, and he trusts me to guide his in the ones I know best about.

The rest, well we experience those together, as an adventure, and learn together in the process. :) Some things we worked out long before we got married, and decided these were the guidelines we wanted in our marriage, and some things we learn on the fly. :)

If you reach this point you'll be faced with a stark choice - grow together or grow apart. And the choice isn't yours. Once you're dissatisfied with being so scared, you will grow, and whether that leads to a stronger or a weaker relationship depends on how your husband reacts. (His initial reaction will be to block it, it is just as scary a process for him as for you.)

We have grown together since we met, 8 years ago, and we continue to grow together. He waited 2 whole years before being able to be with me in the right way, and that was because he worked me through many things to get there. We aren't scared of growth, we embrace it.

Of course you may not be the one to threaten the current balance. He may become dissatisfied. Once that nagging feeling starts gnawing at him, it won't go easily. At some point he'll do the equivalent of stepping away in the metaphor above about standing holding each other. And you'll either have to learn to stand on your own feet or else fall over. (Hint: It is easier to learn to do that if you initiate the growth process...)

I don't think that will ever happen, because we constantly discuss the state of things. We always reassure one another of our love, and if there are any problems, we discuss them. We don't allow distance between us to be there very long, if the distance happens, we sit down and discuss it. Always have, and I believe we always will. If one of us is unhappy or restless or whatever, we talk, and work something out because that is what a good relationship is about, give and take and working things out together, compromising where we can and understanding where we can't.

I may read the book you suggested some day, Ben, but I consider that we have a wonderful, happy marriage, and we continue to grow in that every day. He even has become more integrated with members of my family, talking with them and enjoying their company, and he doesn't even have that with his own, as there is a sort of awkwardness there due to both parents having divorced and remarried. His mother couldn't believe the change he has shown about socializing and opening up since meeting me.

But anyway, you all don't want to hear about my happy marriage, and I didn't mean to elaborate so much on it either. It's just nice to have something positive to post about for a change today. It's not been a positive day online.

Brenda

Edit: P.S. Sorry it was so long, I've been trying to keep my posts more brief in here. I also thought initially, my post to Greg had been in here, but realized after sending, it was in FQ. It's been a confusing day, please forgive me.

Edit: fixed a couple other things.

And you're right, I shouldn't really say, "John allows me this" I should say instead, "our policy is that we don't do such and such", or "he prefers this or that and I understand that."

Have a good day Ben. :)

And we sit down and discuss anything that is really important to me, and when possible, we work out a compromise. The biggest problem about the site I wanted to be on, is it seems really unreliable and wants way too much information for me to just be able to read things.

It bothers me too, I just wish I could find a way to get in contact with someone on it, so that maybe they could update me when the updates aren't there (sometimes the site owner fails to get the updates in the public area, and then they wind up in the non-public area.

But hey, I cope. :)

I think the part that you don't all realize, maybe, is that John and I work everything out ahead of time, when possible. We have sat down and discussed how to handle various things in our marriage, including finances, internet, and etc. I trust him to have better knowledge of certain things, and he trusts me to have better knowledge of others. :) It works.

Brenda

Yes, it's called Toni's Spoiler Site. It's for The Young And The Restless, so I figured you wouldn't be interested in what it was, sorry.

It's based in Canada.

[link|http://www.young-restless.com|http://www.young-restless.com]

Edit: I tried hard to locate a place to write an e-mail to the site owner, to ask if there was a way to get in touch with her about it when the updates are in the private section, but I can't seem to locate an email place anywhere on the site,to write her. and the forums seem to be run by different people, who have the questionable policy rules, which bothers John, that it's actually more than one host who would need access to my info if I get on the site itself.

Nightowl >8#

But guess what?

I went looking for the part that bothered John, (the site had been down for awhile and the privacy part was all screwed up), but instead, I couldn't find that part, but I actually finally FOUND Toni's e-mail address! Yay!!!

Persistence is always good, huh? Thanks for asking me about it, I wouldn't have searched again this quick on my own. :)

Brenda