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It describes our marriage in what Greg called, a working marriage, and I believe that is what we have. And we also believe it's something you keep working on, not something you just have and let go. It's something you have to work on every day, to have a good marriage.

While there is a feeling of security in being "clinging monkeys", your relationship is healthier, more secure (even if it doesn't feel that way!), and more satisfying if you can transition into one where each person asserts him/herself more freely. Perhaps when you've reached my point (another 9 years) you'll understand. Odds are that this is something that you'll have to learn for yourself.

We already assert ourselves very freely. If I really care about something, he'll listen to my arguments and determine if it's doable. If he does, I do the same. In the case of the site we discussed, he agreed to check it out again, as it appears to be in a better state than when we saw it in a state of disarray, and he has agreed to let me on it now, because it no longer says it will do whatever it wants with our info. Yay!

A simple exercise can give you a sense of why. Try standing together, each on their own two feet, arms around each other. If you lean into the other person then every time the other person has to adjust you have to compensate. Neither of you is balanced. If you each have your weight on your own feet, you are more secure because you don't have to worry about the other person's shifts of weight.

We might try that sometime, but I trust him both when leaning on him and when we're both standing on our own feet as well. We don't control one another, we cooperate with one another. Or as many many people have said, we complement one another... or is that the compliment word? I've honestly never known which.

The real point is that when you're bound by your insecurities, it is very threatening for each of you if your partner attempts to address their insecurities. Personal growth threatens the foundation of the relationship! At some point you'll become aware that it feels kind of like, "I wake up every morning and hit myself so that my arm remains broken to give an excuse for someone to take care of me. Wouldn't it hurt less and work better to let my arm heal and then take care of myself?" To which the answer is a resounding and terrifying, Yes!

I used to be one of those people. I used to expect to be taken care of. I used to be needy and dependent, I even used to be clingy and possessive. All of those things are more or less gone or so changed that I don't have these feelings or fears anymore.

I'm not bound by my insecurities anymore, and haven't been insecure about John since his ex-girlfriend finally left our life and stopped tormenting me. She was good at finding chinks in my armor and causing those insecurities to fester. However, when she finally showed her true colors to him, he showed her the door out of their friendship forever. I even allowed another female friend of his(who actually stated at our wedding, that she should have been marrying him instead), into my Yahoo group, because I trust my husband.

We have our individual areas of personal growth, and he has sites he reads and deals with and I have my own, as well as we have the ones we share. He doesn't read everything here, for example, and I don't read everything on every site he's on.

I do not feel I need him to take care of me, except in extreme circumstances, like when my aunt died and my family was in chaos. I feel like he will take care of me, because he loves me, but I also feel I can take care of myself in many respects. Maybe not all, I'm still not sure about my ability to be employed again, but there are many I am sure about. I simply trust him to guide my life in the areas he knows best about, and he trusts me to guide his in the ones I know best about.

The rest, well we experience those together, as an adventure, and learn together in the process. :) Some things we worked out long before we got married, and decided these were the guidelines we wanted in our marriage, and some things we learn on the fly. :)

If you reach this point you'll be faced with a stark choice - grow together or grow apart. And the choice isn't yours. Once you're dissatisfied with being so scared, you will grow, and whether that leads to a stronger or a weaker relationship depends on how your husband reacts. (His initial reaction will be to block it, it is just as scary a process for him as for you.)

We have grown together since we met, 8 years ago, and we continue to grow together. He waited 2 whole years before being able to be with me in the right way, and that was because he worked me through many things to get there. We aren't scared of growth, we embrace it.

Of course you may not be the one to threaten the current balance. He may become dissatisfied. Once that nagging feeling starts gnawing at him, it won't go easily. At some point he'll do the equivalent of stepping away in the metaphor above about standing holding each other. And you'll either have to learn to stand on your own feet or else fall over. (Hint: It is easier to learn to do that if you initiate the growth process...)

I don't think that will ever happen, because we constantly discuss the state of things. We always reassure one another of our love, and if there are any problems, we discuss them. We don't allow distance between us to be there very long, if the distance happens, we sit down and discuss it. Always have, and I believe we always will. If one of us is unhappy or restless or whatever, we talk, and work something out because that is what a good relationship is about, give and take and working things out together, compromising where we can and understanding where we can't.

I may read the book you suggested some day, Ben, but I consider that we have a wonderful, happy marriage, and we continue to grow in that every day. He even has become more integrated with members of my family, talking with them and enjoying their company, and he doesn't even have that with his own, as there is a sort of awkwardness there due to both parents having divorced and remarried. His mother couldn't believe the change he has shown about socializing and opening up since meeting me.

But anyway, you all don't want to hear about my happy marriage, and I didn't mean to elaborate so much on it either. It's just nice to have something positive to post about for a change today. It's not been a positive day online.

Brenda

Edit: P.S. Sorry it was so long, I've been trying to keep my posts more brief in here. I also thought initially, my post to Greg had been in here, but realized after sending, it was in FQ. It's been a confusing day, please forgive me.

Edit: fixed a couple other things.

And you're right, I shouldn't really say, "John allows me this" I should say instead, "our policy is that we don't do such and such", or "he prefers this or that and I understand that."

Have a good day Ben. :)