Post #180,807
10/25/04 9:22:46 AM
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Incompetent Coalitioners lose 400 tons of go-boom
[link|http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/25/international/middleeast/25bomb.html|http://www.nytimes.c...eeast/25bomb.html]
Always look on the bright side of liBOOM
-drl
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Post #180,808
10/25/04 9:27:03 AM
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So nice that we're safer.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #180,855
10/25/04 12:39:15 PM
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More on CNN
[link|http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/25/iraq.explosives/index.html|http://edition.cnn.c...osives/index.html]
Some 380 tons of explosives, powerful enough to detonate nuclear warheads, are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that was supposed to be under American control, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog says.
Melissa Fleming, spokeswoman for the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), told CNN the Iraqi interim government reported several days ago that the explosives were missing from the Al Qaqaa complex, south of Baghdad.
The explosives -- considered powerful enough to demolish buildings or detonate nuclear warheads -- were under IAEA control until the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. IAEA workers left the country before the fighting began.
"Our immediate concern is that if the explosives did fall into the wrong hands they could be used to commit terrorist acts and some of the bombings that we've seen," Fleming said.
------
I can't help but think that Bush is clearly the sort of person who would try to eradicate a hornet's nest with a baseball bat.
That was lovely cheese.
--Wallace, The Wrong Trousers
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Post #180,860
10/25/04 12:42:25 PM
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Bat? He'd use a BB gun
-drl
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Post #180,861
10/25/04 12:43:05 PM
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Chainsaw.
Now, if he WAS to use a bb gun, he'd make sure somebody he didn't like was underneath it when he shot it.
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Post #180,916
10/25/04 3:47:18 PM
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About those missing explosives at al Qaqqaa
[link|http://www.adamyoshida.com/2004/10/mainstream-media-opens-fire.html|Seems they were missing to begin with]
Excerpts:
Now, the story fails to answer one core question: when did these
explosives go missing? It is simply never mentioned anywhere in the body
of the story. American forces, one official is quoted as saying, went
through the facility sometime towards the beginning of the war, saw no
materials carrying the IAEA seal, and moved on. Buried deep within the
story is the most likely explanation for what happened to the stockpile:
it was standard Iraqi practice to, prior to bombing, move explosives out
into the open and camouflage it. In all probability, it was long gone
before any American soldiers ever got near the place...
First: in all probability most of what was at Al Qaqaa and these other
places was looted before the arrival of US troops. Post-war intelligence
confirms what many of us have long believed: that Saddam had, by March
of 2003, abandoned all hope of defeating the United States in a
conventional war and, therefore, had staked his hopes on the victory of
a guerrilla force which, in collaboration with seditionists in America,
would undermine the morale of the American people and force a US
withdrawal.
I say:
This is another overhyped story, very similar to the trumped up
museum looting scandal. The only thing making it different is it comes
very close to the election, leaving very little time to get the
debunking out there.
[link|http://fnmarlowe-politics-world.blogspot.com/2004/10/about-those-missing-explosives-at-al.html|Comment at blogger.com]
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/iraq.html#20041025|Angelfire link] (turn off Javascript to avoid popups)
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I will not rate.
Lucy Ramirez please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Kerry is a liar and he doesn't tolerate fights from others.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
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Post #180,933
10/25/04 5:19:08 PM
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Agreement...but as Scott McClellan has pointed out...
the real question isn't when they went missing. The real question is when did the President know. Q The Kerry campaign is hitting you on this story in the New York Times today that a large cache of explosives have gone missing. Is there anything you could have done about that?
MR. McCLELLAN: Maybe the best way to do this is kind of walk you through how we came to be informed about this. The Iraqi Interim Government informed -- told the IAEA -- the International Atomic Energy Agency on October 10th that there were approximately 350 tons of high explosives missing from Al Qaqaa in Iraq. And they informed the IAEA because these munitions were subject to IAEA monitoring, because they were considered dual-use materials. And the International Atomic Energy Agency informed the United States mission in Vienna on October 15th about these -- this cache of explosives that was missing because of some looting that went on in Iraq toward the end of Operation Iraqi Freedom, or during and toward the end of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Q When did the President find out?
MR. McCLELLAN: That's why I said, we were informed on October 15th. Condi Rice was informed days after that. This is all in the last, what, 10 days now.
[link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/10/20041025-1.html| Source ]
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Post #180,934
10/25/04 5:30:35 PM
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Read above
The explosives -- considered powerful enough to demolish buildings or detonate nuclear warheads -- were under IAEA control until the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. IAEA workers left the country before the fighting began.
---
So apparently the IAEA had them up until they had to leave because of the invasion in March 2003.
Seems there should have been some sort of handoff there.
That was lovely cheese.
--Wallace, The Wrong Trousers
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Post #180,940
10/25/04 6:27:25 PM
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There was... but wrong hands.
"I'm man enough to tell you that I can't put my finger on
exactly what my philosophy is now, but I'm flexible."
-- Malcolm X
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Post #181,530
10/28/04 4:27:04 PM
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Little time to debunk
The only thing making it different is it comes very close to the election, leaving very little time to get the debunking out there. Do I smell a coverup? The administration has known this tidbit of information for quite some time. Yet with all their preoccupation about WMD, they were wanting to keep hush on this very subject. They have only theirselves to blame for not having enough time to debunk the story since they withheld this information from the public for an extended amount of time. I say: if it wasn't about the mismanagement of high explosives, there'd be some other breaking story since there have been a whole class of errors committed in this administration's hubris.
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Post #181,431
10/28/04 12:10:03 PM
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The incredible shrinking explosives looting scandal
[link|http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=204304|More and more like the museum looting]
Excerpt:
Iraqi officials may be overstating the amount of explosives reported
to have disappeared from a weapons depot, documents obtained by ABC News
show.
The Iraqi interim government has told the United States and international
weapons inspectors that 377 tons of conventional explosives are missing
from the Al-Qaqaa installation, which was supposed to be under U.S
military control.
But International Atomic Energy Agency documents obtained by ABC News and
first reported on "World News Tonight with Peter Jennings" indicate the
amount of missing explosives may be substantially less than the Iraqis
reported.
The information on which the Iraqi Science Ministry based an Oct. 10
memo in which it reported that 377 tons of RDX explosives were missing -
presumably stolen due to a lack of security - was based on "declaration"
from July 15, 2002. At that time, the Iraqis said there were 141 tons of
RDX explosives at the facility.
But the confidential IAEA documents obtained by ABC News show that on
Jan. 14, 2003, the agency's inspectors recorded that just over three
tons of RDX were stored at the facility - a considerable discrepancy
from what the Iraqis reported.
The IAEA documents could mean that 138 tons of explosives were removed
from the facility long before the United States launched "Operation
Iraqi Freedom" in March 2003.
I say:
It's looking more and more like whatever went missing did so while
we were wasting precious time with the UN Security Council. And rumor
is it all [link|http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041028-122637-6257r.htm|went to Syria, with help from Russian Special Forces.]
Also, [link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?node=admin/registration/register&destination=register&nextstep=gather&application=reg30-nation&applicationURL=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3493-2004Oct27.html|it's said] that CBS planned to come out with this just before the
election for maximum impact, leaving no time to debunk, but the New York
Times jumped the gun.
One thing we know for sure: this scandal is trumped up, just like most
of the others.
Oh, and [link|http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Toronto/Peter_Worthington/2004/10/15/669611.html|speaking of weapons caches:]
Excerpt:
Littered with burned out Soviet military vehicles, the whole area is
a junk pile strewn with every sort of live ammunition, fuses, unexploded
shells, rockets, etc., all supposedly under the authority of Belgian
troops (at the moment), who ignored it.
In the midst of examining the bunkers and taking photos, a Swedish UN
guy, a French major and a German colonel arrived to make a fuss and
order the Canadians to leave. The French major insisted his government
had a deal with the Afghan government for the area, and ISAF had no
business being there.
This cut little ice with Maj. Hynes, who is responsible -- not to the
commander of Camp Julien, Col. Jim Ellis -- but to the ANA, which has
now moved in to secure the site.
[link|http://fnmarlowe-politics-world.blogspot.com/2004/10/incredible-shrinking-explosives.html|Comment at blogger.com]
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/iraq.html#20041028|Angelfire link] (turn off Javascript to avoid popups)
(Speaking of rumors, the NYT is also saying something about Ramadi. Any corroboration of that from a reliable source?)
Freenet: /SSK%40jbf~W~x49RjZfyJwplqwurpNmg0PAgM/marlowe//iraq.html#20041028
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I will not rate.
Lucy Ramirez please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Kerry is a liar and he doesn't tolerate fights from others.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
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Post #181,433
10/28/04 12:13:45 PM
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It's a stupid point to make a fuss over.
Lots of crap went missing. Why scream about it now?
A better point to make would be the continued underfunding of the border guard by $1 billion. That's a bigger threat to U.S. security.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #181,436
10/28/04 12:21:19 PM
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Because Kerry hopes to get mileage out of it.
He's screaming about it for all its worth. Got a campaign ad devoted exclusively to it. Slandering our troops again, just to get at Bush.
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I will not rate.
Lucy Ramirez please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Kerry is a liar and he doesn't tolerate fights from others.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
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Post #181,437
10/28/04 12:24:11 PM
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No doubt he hopes to.
No worse than Bush's stupid attack ads. Both of them need to get on to real issues. The problem is that crap issues and wedge issues are what sell.
Is he slandering our troops? No. He's berating the leaders. Don't confuse the two. Supporting the troops isn't the same as supporting Bush.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #181,444
10/28/04 12:39:16 PM
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Well the beloved troops are pretty damned incompetent
Surprise! A lot of worthless Pentagoners backed up by punk rockers with tanks. They'd get their asses handed to them in a real fight.
-drl
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Post #181,445
10/28/04 12:43:22 PM
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Some of them are.
Like in any enterprise.
There are a lot of very good people over there (my brother-in-law was one of them). You rarely hear about people doing their jobs well. But put good people in a bad situation and you still have a bad situation.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #181,455
10/28/04 1:06:34 PM
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Citizen soldiers
Large standing professional armies FAIL. You win by having something real to win, and citizens with a personal stake.
-drl
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Post #181,472
10/28/04 1:51:56 PM
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Vietnam was not a military failure
And neither is Iraq. The problem lies within political domain.
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Post #181,478
10/28/04 1:58:13 PM
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I vehemently disagree
Great officers are boiled out of the morass of pukes by actual war. Neither Iraq nor Vietnam can be called actual war, so the pukes are in charge. The grunt has his limited view in all cases. His morale depends on having a definite goal and good leadership. That will never happen in Iraq, just as it never happened in Vietnam. (Isolated cases like Col. Moore at Dien Bien Phu do not count.)
-drl
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Post #181,447
10/28/04 12:52:59 PM
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Interesting...bot is full of Write-Only Memory (WOM)
Slandering our troops again, just to get at Bush. Wonder if the bot can stop spewing long enough to accept any input? Any fool who can associate a subject and predicate would learn that the troops aren't being slandered, but rather the ass-clowns (to borrow an appropriate phrase) who allegedly prepared this fiasco...er, quagmire...uh, "adventure" are the ones being slandered; you know the PNACers in the "administration", including your fucknuts heroes, Philbert. But then when your program is set to stdin > /dev/null, it's hard to correctly assimilate input, ain't it? jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #181,464
10/28/04 1:36:51 PM
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Syntax Error.
You mean stdin < /dev/null.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
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Post #181,485
10/28/04 2:09:20 PM
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Thanx-
*Nix is rusty.
Design isn't
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #181,553
10/28/04 6:15:56 PM
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Curiouser and Curiouser - ABC News you say?
Using GPS technology and talking with members of the 101st Airborne Division, 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS has determined the crew embedded with the troops may have been on the southern edge of the Al Qaqaa installation, where the ammunition disappeared. The news crew was based just south of Al Qaqaa, and drove two or three miles north of there with soldiers on April 18, 2003.
During that trip, members of the 101st Airborne Division showed the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS news crew bunker after bunker of material labelled "explosives." Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get into the bunkers and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords.
"We can stick it in those and make some good bombs." a soldier told our crew.
Soldiers who took a 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew into bunkers on April 18 said some of the boxes uncovered contained proximity fuses.
There were what appeared to be fuses for bombs. They also found bags of material men from the 101st couldn't identify, but box after box was clearly marked "explosive."
[link|http://kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1| ABC News - KSTP ] I say -- First the republican say that the explosives weren't there. Then they say it might not be too much And now [link|http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4581121,00.html|some] of the republicans are blaming the troops? There are some sickos in the republican party.
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Post #181,563
10/28/04 6:49:51 PM
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little phil needs better proof than ABC
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
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Post #181,591
10/28/04 9:31:41 PM
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How about Fox news?
[link|http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83170,00.html|April 03]
Or another Foxnews [link|http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83252,00.html|story]
Or the Daily Herald [link|http://www.dailyherald.com/special/iraq/wwi_paststory.asp?intID=3771654|story]
Or the NY Times [link|http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/28/international/middleeast/28bomb.html|story]
-----------------------------------------
How do you convince a Washington Journalist that you're not slapping him in the face?
Tell him you're not.
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Post #181,597
10/28/04 10:06:32 PM
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No, it hasnt been approved by either Karl, Rove or Marx
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
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Post #181,661
10/29/04 11:49:15 AM
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Will you please quit putting Marx in with those guys?
bcnu,
Mikem
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
-Bertrand Russell
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Post #181,670
10/29/04 12:38:40 PM
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Yeah, keep Zeppo out of it!
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Post #181,671
10/29/04 12:40:11 PM
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moffo is a Groucho Marxist
-drl
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Post #181,731
10/29/04 6:02:57 PM
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Re: Will you please quit putting Marx in with those guys?
soon as they give up the plan, dominion of the state by the party for the benefit of the apparatchiks and exporting their revolution to the world directly and by proxies. They are the same.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
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Post #181,888
10/31/04 10:55:11 AM
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Not even close.
You haven't read much Marx, have you?
bcnu,
Mikem
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
-Bertrand Russell
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Post #181,889
10/31/04 10:57:42 AM
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Saw all the movies though. My ilk did too...
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Post #181,890
10/31/04 11:02:17 AM
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Well, at least you concede being ill-informed ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
-Bertrand Russell
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Post #181,907
10/31/04 2:16:54 PM
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read all of it
also observed the aims of those who implemented the plan, Trotsky, the Internationale and stalin. These guys are using the same game plan, all war all the time for a world order by central order. They even admit it. Reads some of the material I have posted, these guys were hard core communists who claim to have seen the light. They saw the light on in the reublican party with no one at home, they took it over.
regards,
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
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