Trevor, cowfucking triangleheaded fuckneeted

Post #178,531 by daemon 10/8/04 8:10:41 PM Reply	Trevor, cowfucking triangleheaded fuckneeted rat bastard cockbrethed cuntlipped operating system! Fuckneeted distro shouldnt be called Sarge, It is hearby now known as Trevor for how the fuckneet dilletants cant even write a install without coming off like dingleberry snorting, willnot gobbling shit gobbling fuckneets. boot cdrom press enter at boot screen goes black then a pictur flickers then goes black. Okay, hasnt detected harware yet, be patient and press enter in between flashes. Get a few screens in and then the flash said yer fucked so I rebooted at the boot prompt press function keys to see what flags I can pass to boot with. FUCK ME THEY HAVE FRAMEBUFFERING ENABLED AS A DEFAULT!!!! stupid gets, that can certainly wait until the detect hardware, how fucking stupid is that? Always install to the lowest possible factor till you can get at the hardware detection phaze, fix the frambuffs, notice that dhcp is a default so select static, then off we go. asks me if I have pmcia cards, fuck no, I have a three year old dell desktop select no. It then tries to detect a nic. Cant find the fucking thing, lowest common intel nic dell can but and this crap cant detect it. So I tell it to continue, fix that later. Next tries to configure apt-get I choose FSU cause its just down the road BUT NO THIS FUCKING STEAMING PILE OF CANT CUNT IT DECIDES SINCE I DONT HAVE A NIC I CANT DO THAT AND FAILS!!! Fuck me this is unix and if I tell the operating system rm -r / then just FUCKING DO IT!! if I wanted gateware I would install gatesware. Skip thru, the it goes all done and I get a login. ifconfig -a wonder what the fucking problem is, theres my nic all ready to go. Configure it, ping around the place so I am good to go and type apt-get --h to see whats next, order it up and FUCKME the config file is empty (see above paragraph) so now I have a network, lets try a re-install. nope cant find a nic again even though Its up and has a link light. Get back to a prompt, dink around and find that it thinks the Nic is on a pcmia card. Okies re-install sure I have a pcmia card, voila found the Nic PUKED OUT A FUCKING MESSAGE THAT THERE ARE NO DRIVERS FOR IT YET AND BARFS! Now I know knoppix is debian and will push that to the harddrive and twiddle with it there but this debian installer is the shittiest installer ever! I have installed xenix, sco, fortune, att, bsd, linux(several distros) solaris and other flavors of nix on intel and this TREVOR is the most fuckneeted I have ever used. Fuckneet a knight who says neet but is too fuckwitted to say neet. regards, daemon
Post #178,541 by broomberg 10/8/04 9:31:34 PM Reply	Now try Suse 9.2
Post #178,544 by daemon 10/8/04 9:35:56 PM Reply	Re: Now try Suse 9.2 right after mandrake, using this to doc how different current distros are usable from an installation point of view as well as usability. regards, daemon
Post #178,547 by drewk 10/8/04 9:41:32 PM Reply	Keep in mind what Ben said about perl From the comments you clearly know your way around Unix. Is the Debian installer bad because it's bad, or is it bad because it didn't do what you expected? As someone who avoids installing new OSes any more than I have to, I can testify that they all suck to some degree. The only ones that have been easy have done it by installing everything in the world, which I then spend weeks trying to turn off to get decent performance from my creaky hardware. I once tried to put RedHat on a laptop with a 2G disk. By the time I was deep enough into the custom configs to turn off all the extra crap I didn't need, I might as well not have been using the graphical installer any more. Once Greg sees this thread I'm sure he'll point you at the graphical installer you should have been using. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #178,549 by daemon 10/8/04 9:54:34 PM Reply	Re: Keep in mind what Ben said about perl re-read my rational comments, the installer has a bad design, making assumptions about better than lowest common denominator (in the case of video generic VGA) coundnt find a nic(not a problem) then assumes because it couldnt find it that you could not setup a network config file to get more of the install later. Now ftp adresses for aditional packages should not be deterred because of lack of tcpip. A reasonable installation would assume that a nic could be added and configured later and built the config anyway. Yes the conf file is available on the net but it is stupidity to not build it then during the install then fail the apt-get when an attempt is made without IP services. regards, daemon
Post #178,561 by deSitter 10/8/04 11:26:26 PM Reply	Exactly. Welcome to the Debian religion - folker pastoring -drl
Post #178,567 by daemon 10/8/04 11:51:37 PM Reply	Welcome to the Debian religion - fucking parsing? no I expect common sense, a distro that assumes you are using the lowest hardware rekkies which I wuz and do what I type not what fuckneets decide is PC regards, daemon
Post #178,570 by folkert 10/8/04 11:58:10 PM Reply	It is NOT about about being PC. You and Ross are a Definite pair. You can't use the easiest text based installer you can find. on the boot... please press F2 <-> F10 to understand the flexibility. You are a fucking expert, use the expert settings. If you can't install Debian you must be braindead just like Ross is. You are fighting it. Remember there are 11 platforms the installer has to install to. If you can't even comprehend the simple shit, Why for would you want a GUI that just adds to the complexity of the install. I'll bet given that machine in my possession it would just work. I can't even begin to understand how a simple instaler can kick yours and Ross' ass. Fucking Unbelievable. I am done trying to hold hands and help those that won't help themselves and open up and look around. If my 11 year old daughter can install Debian Sarge unassisted using the new Debian Installer... (I wasn't even around when she did it) I can't help YOU two anymore. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #178,574 by daemon 10/9/04 12:06:56 AM Reply	Re: It is NOT about about being PC. READ the tech details under the rant. I DID install and complained mightily about HOW FUCKED UP THE INSTALL WAS COMPARED TO OTHER NIX INSTALL DISTROS!! I got it up but painfully from a crap installer dont whine that yer daughter hit the hardware lottery, thats not an excuse. Adress the issues I brought up or admit the installer is broken or needs fixing:-) regards, bill
Post #178,578 by folkert 10/9/04 12:12:40 AM Reply	Okay... It just isn't my daughter that has been able to use the Net-install. Nearly everyone I have given it to... finds no problems. It even sets up the bootloader to load the other OSes on the machine. I find no reason anymore. I read you descriptions, your problems, All of your problems stem from your lack of opening up and absorbing a different way of install. I give up on you and Ross. Both of you are somewhat... closed source. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #178,582 by daemon 10/9/04 12:26:14 AM Reply	Misunderstanding, my apologies I am not comparing netinstalls, I am comparing distro installs from a technical paper version to myself. In other words can I search on the net for linux distros, get hits on major release sites, download an ISO and install painlessly. If I wanted the best way to get on a box and get linux rolling I would have directly emailed you off line and asked your advice as I dont keep up with the latest and greatous except thru this board and Karsten. My purpose was to get what joe schmoo has available via google and see how competant it was. Devian Sarge from an install basis was a HUGE fucking hork! yea with your "insider ability" meanin you know the product inside and out install is painless but from an outsider ability its the worst I have ever seen a valid critisism in my view and to add to the list of intel unix installs that are beter I had forgotten interative Unix 5.4 regards daemon
Post #178,598 by bepatient 10/9/04 9:45:57 AM Reply	Reality check I'm not going to say its difficult because it isn't. I will say it is a paradigm shift for most and this makes it "difficult". I know the reason why it is the way it is. I also know that once debian is on the box it has no rival for ease of maintenance. All that said, the installer (while effective and utilitarian) is not as "simple" as the other major distros. I told you the same thing when I went through the installs. Got into the same flamewar IIRC. With practice, it becomes less complex and you get to see the benefit of it being the way it is. But compared to Mandrake, for example, it is more painful a process. Still, after the first box...once I understood the real benefits...I quickly decided that a samll amount of unease, even pain, at the beginning was well worth it in the end. My daughter has accomplished some incredible feats on computers as well. They're wonderful creatures. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,568 by folkert 10/8/04 11:52:08 PM Reply	GET IT RIGHT! -> FOLKERT -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #178,569 by daemon 10/8/04 11:53:24 PM Reply	in this thread Fuck er hmm :-)!= -> FOLKERT
Post #178,572 by folkert 10/9/04 12:02:34 AM Reply	Don't even go there. (new thread) Created as new thread #178571 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=178571\|Don't even go there.] -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #178,573 by folkert 10/9/04 12:03:44 AM Reply	He used Folker (NO -> T) -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #178,602 by daemon 10/9/04 10:23:54 AM Reply	Re: He used Folker (NO -> T) understood and was reminding that other forms of insult based on your name was !=(not equal) you regards, daemon
Post #178,587 by pwhysall 10/9/04 2:43:27 AM Reply	FFF File a bug Fix it or Fuck off. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #178,603 by daemon 10/9/04 10:48:58 AM Reply	FFF thot you were in charge? I did get it up. It was not a bug that the install didnt grok the nic, thats common and I dont expect it to. The design is flawed because the main componant of package management wouldnt install because of a nic driver failure. If I took all nics out of the box I could still configure a web server to listen of port 80 and using a web browser connect to [link\|http://localhost:80\|http://localhost:80] and get a page served. The install is a design flaw not a bug. I would expect that pigheadedness from Microsoft but not from what everyone quotes as the best distro ever. I am not complaining about the distro just the installation routines on the sarge distro, so where do I file it? regards, bill
Post #178,611 by pwhysall 10/9/04 12:52:51 PM Reply	If it's a design flaw, it's a bug. File it or shut up. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #178,614 by pwhysall 10/9/04 1:40:14 PM Reply	Ben wanted more detail in my answer :) +++ Fragment of ZIWT conference log follows +++ Point your Jabber client at iwethey.org and join the ZIWT conference on conference.iwethey.org for instant fun [18:17]<tilly> You might remind him that in the bug report he should use normal English. [18:18]<tilly> boxlish will itself be seen as a bug in the bug report. [18:18]<ethiksgradient> Indeed. [18:24]<tilly> BTW what do you think he should have done differently from his description? [18:29]<yendormike> You're entitled to the "Little Boat" Trophy, for having taken 100 Shore trips. [18:30]<ethiksgradient> He tries to update across the network having decided to not bother to configure a network. This doesn't work, and he gets annoyed. [18:31]<ethiksgradient> The apt config file is empty because he skipped configuring it. [18:31]<ethiksgradient> In short, the debian installer did everything he told it to. [18:32]<tilly> Did he reasonably not understand that he was telling it that? [18:32]<ethiksgradient> Reframe the question. I'm not clear what you're asking. [18:32]<tilly> The installer did what he told it. Was it clear to him that he was telling the installer to do that? [18:33]<ethiksgradient> Yes. Skipping steps means that the tasks done in those steps are not done. I'm not sure how the d-i team are supposed to get around this short of building clairvoyance into the system. [18:33]<tilly> Why not post this explanation? [18:34]<tilly> Rather than just telling him to file a bug report? [18:34]<ethiksgradient> I might just post this chat log instead of typing it all out again. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #178,620 by daemon 10/9/04 3:31:51 PM Reply	Re: Ben wanted more detail in my answer :) apparently a translation of my issues are in order 18:30]<ethiksgradient> He tries to update across the network having decided to not bother to configure a network. This doesn't work, and he gets annoyed. the install could not find a nic card, so how does installing via the network work if it cannot find a nic card to configure a network on? ]<ethiksgradient> The apt config file is empty because he skipped configuring it. [18:31]<ethiksgradient> In short, the debian installer did everything he told it to. I didnt skip configuring it, it REFUSED TO CONFIGURE WHAT I WANTED BECAUSE IT COULD NOR FIND A NETWORK CARD!!!! The apt-get config file is empty because it refused to allow any selection that involved a network because the installer could not find a nic card <ethiksgradient> Yes. Skipping steps means that the tasks done in those steps are not done. I'm not sure how the d-i team are supposed to get around this short of building clairvoyance into the system. The DI team doesnt need clairvoyance it needs common sense. Allowing apt-get to be configured FOR a network should not be disallowed because of LACK of connectivity. Unlike some to me the network really is the computer, any machine should be net available by some method or another sooner or later. Any service should install as requested and bitch about not having a network ONLY when someone tries to run it WITHOUT a network. example, I can install an ftp client on a machine without a nic. It will install just fine. Only when I attempt to reach a network without a net connection will I get an error. After I install a network it will work just fine. Having the ftp check for connectivity PRIOR to installation then refusing to install because of LACK of a network is fuckneetery. regards, daemon
Post #178,624 by pwhysall 10/9/04 3:58:35 PM Reply	File a bug then. And yes, a translation of your issues is in order. Lish is fine; however, no-one else can read it without a great deal of effort. Oddly enough, the current Debian Installer worked just fine on this very (Dell) PC which has a very peculiar Intel Network NIC Interface Card - it requires the alternate driver. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #178,659 by daemon 10/9/04 10:14:38 PM Reply	Re: File a bug then. even more intersting is that after the install was done and banged you into a login screen an ifconfig -a supplied the nic card, once populated it worked well. I manned apt-get, found a sample file and populated t with changes and it works fine. My issue isnt with debian itself, just that the install should not care if IP is up when configuring parts that require it to run after the install. regards daemon
Post #178,670 by pwhysall 10/10/04 2:38:21 AM Reply	No need to do sources.list manually Run apt-setup instead. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #178,676 by daemon 10/10/04 3:00:37 AM Reply	Re: No need to do sources.list manually well fuck me, Im glad that was in the man pages or I might have missed it :-) regards, daemon
Post #178,685 by pwhysall 10/10/04 4:11:00 AM Reply	Note apt-setup is not in the apt package; it's in base-config. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home]

Welcome to IWETHEY!