So they brought it up to throw it in their faces in Jan 2003

Post #178,241 by bepatient 10/7/04 12:48:40 PM Reply	So they brought it up to throw it in their faces in Jan 2003 More spin. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,280 by admin 10/7/04 3:40:39 PM Reply	The guy who drafted it was interviewed. The purpose of the bill was to create a draft that drew from all segments of society equally, instead of what was feared would be created by the Republicans: a draft that allowed deferments and bypasses by privileged people (read: sons and daughters of senators, etc... just like Bush and the National Guard). So yes, it was an inoculation - the thinking was "get in a fair draft before the Republicans create an unfair draft". Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #178,282 by bepatient 10/7/04 3:57:38 PM Reply	I'm sure he sounded sincere, too. chuckle. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,318 by Ashton 10/7/04 6:35:55 PM Reply	No, call yours: selective data taking - none Even I (who don't punctiliously follow the vote at early stages) Know What and knew before.. the basis for offering this bill was ~ What He Said (Admin). Faux cynicism paste-in hasn't enough momentum to leap that chasm, (even with an invisible Shrub-smirk embedded). Hey, you're so predictable lately, I could write your chimpstuff.. shorten threads.
Post #178,322 by bepatient 10/7/04 6:41:12 PM 10/7/04 6:41:39 PM Reply	And in the 18 ensuing months. ...what was this "obvious, predictable" Republican counter-legislation? Where was it introduced? Got an HR number maybe. Its actually been 20 months...plenty of time to hatch that secret plan. Your BS meter not going off? Thought it might be better than that. Politics as usual...and per PT Barnum...another 60 seconds must have passed. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient] Edited by bepatient Oct. 7, 2004, 06:41:39 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #178,326 by Ashton 10/7/04 6:54:46 PM Reply	"Secret !?" - only insofar as, pre-release - all IS 'secret' Ya wanna do epistemology or sump'n? Must we also suppose that the IDEA of DRAFT does-NOT go, like a horse and carriage with: perpetual war/invasion as scripted Neoconman Policy !? WTF would you get all that cannon foddr from? "See the World" ads? "Self-esteem in a shiny uniform" ads? (Next you'll imply that the 'PNAC' has no relevance to recent history of events or the population of the Bushie Cabinet/Advisors, either - won'cha?) WTF kinda grammar school level are you aimimg for, the definition of IS? (At least That chestnut was appropriate to the place of usage: the entire pseudo-science of The Law, when you are on blatant political-trial re sex.) THE DRAFT has been crazy-Aunt-Maude in-the-corner ever since the State/Union ukase arrogated to Chimp: the claimed power to single-handedly declare war/invade anywhere on the planet, for any reason he/Cheney/Rove 'likes'. Only a retard would need explanation of this Damocles sword's omnipresence. You a retard? "Secret" my ass.
Post #178,332 by bepatient 10/7/04 7:35:50 PM Reply	Well... deashtonizer or not...you were positively fired up there pardner... The "secret" plan was Sen John HermanMunster Kerry's words in a speech. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,371 by Ashton 10/7/04 11:15:13 PM Reply	.. it's really about the Hair ^h^h Face__ isn't it.
Post #178,401 by bepatient 10/8/04 7:27:10 AM Reply	Not really... ..but Herman Munster had that look first ;-) If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,502 by Ashton 10/8/04 4:46:00 PM Reply	So? .. Alfred E. Neumann [\ufffd Mad] had the other guy's 'look'
Post #178,505 by bepatient 10/8/04 4:55:00 PM Reply	That is all too true. You can call him Al... dahhh da da da Dah da da dada If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,330 by ben_tilly 10/7/04 7:18:47 PM Reply	The plan... is to put a draft off until the second term. By doing things to force people to extend their tours, they can keep enough people in until then, but at that point given current reenlistment statistics, we're looking at going below the number of armed forces that we need for our current levels of deployment. (As it is we're stretching them thin.) In the meantime all of the machinery to actually conduct a draft has been brought back up to speed (draft boards filled, etc) for the first time since Vietnam. Reagan partly did that, but he didn't bring it as far back as Bush has. However what people don't realize is that Kerry is no better than Bush on this. Kerry hopes to be able to reduce forces in Iraq, but may not be able to. And Kerry has promised to increase the size of our military. Where will he find the people? The arithmetic that's against Bush is even more against Kerry. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #178,333 by bepatient 10/7/04 7:38:26 PM Reply	Riiight. I know what you're saying. But everyone except the mongers have been fairly emphatic on exactly the opposite statement. Short of world war...and while its a mess...Iraq doesn't qualify...selective service will remain a federally funded waste of money. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,340 by ben_tilly 10/7/04 8:49:12 PM Reply	Iraq qualifies IMO The figures that Kerry quoted - that I haven't seen disputed - are that 9 out of 10 active duty units are preparing to go to Iraq, in Iraq, or have just come out of Iraq. Which sounds to me like we're feeling stretched thin. And the Army and Marines are having trouble recruiting more. If we need to expand and can't find volunteers, what then? Well either we increase pay so that we get more volunteers (Bush moved to cut pay), get non-volunteers, or find ways to not need to expand. My understanding is that whoever is President next will be faced with this choice. Neither wants to talk about it. So we're left with making educated guesses about how people will deal with projected shortages in warm bodies. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #178,361 by bepatient 10/7/04 10:55:56 PM Reply	Redeployment. That, imo, was the purpose of the announced removal of 30000 troops from Korea and 60000 from Germany. Nearly 100,000 troops that are sitting in areas where they are not needed and they could be used to "retire" the guard in Iraq until such a time as we can begin to materially reduce forces. I believe that to be 18-24 months away. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,367 by ben_tilly 10/7/04 11:04:34 PM Reply	And there we have different beliefs I don't believe that Iraq can stabilize until after we've left. That belief predates the war, and is why I opposed the invasion in the first place. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #178,402 by bepatient 10/8/04 7:28:32 AM Reply	Not really Because I don't think it will be complete until we've gone either. But I don't believe the month to month worsening of insurgency will continue either. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,433 by inthane-chan 10/8/04 10:53:49 AM Reply	Why? But I don't believe the month to month worsening of insurgency will continue either. All I want for my birthday is a new President!
Post #178,434 by bepatient 10/8/04 11:04:36 AM Reply	Iraqis Believe it or not...it does take some time and convincing about what its like and what it takes to run your own country as opposed to being run by it. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,449 by admin 10/8/04 12:09:09 PM Reply	Except... A lot of the bad stuff isn't being done by Iraqis... Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #178,453 by bepatient 10/8/04 12:13:51 PM Reply	Yet. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,454 by ben_tilly 10/8/04 12:23:17 PM Reply	Yes, really I believe that the insurgency will continue to worsten. Furthermore I believe that it is an extremely difficult trick to learn to stand on your own two feet while being supported by someone else, and to then be able to do well when that support is removed. This applies for anything from individual people to corporate spin-offs to governments. Any government that we try to support there will be weak because of that. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #178,471 by bepatient 10/8/04 1:40:08 PM Reply	K. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #178,503 by Ashton 10/8/04 4:53:36 PM Reply	Wizened-LRPD: " It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just bombed." All things come to him who reads \ufffdschuylus But we have the LRPD

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